Ep 96 - Terminator 2: Judgement Day (1991)

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Sarah Connor becomes more like a Terminator, and the Terminator becomes more humane as John Connor sends himself a new father who's more durable than the first time around. [00:00:18] Speaker B: Completely overrated. [00:00:20] Speaker C: Hello, everybody, and welcome back to our rating the show where I get together with two of my friends, we take a movie franchise, break it down by individual movie, get them an overall score, and throw them back up on the board. This week we're talking about 1991's Terminator 2, Judgment Day. And I'm joined, as always, by Brian and Will. Will, how you doing this week? We got a. A high and a low. For me. [00:00:39] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, my high is I'm leaving to Switzerland on vacation this weekend, so I'm super excited. I've been packing, I've been preparing so that you guys have some reviews for the three weeks that I'm away. And it was a lot of fun putting those together. I hope you find it fun as well. My low is that I'm. I'm gonna miss chatting with you guys. I already like just putting these reviews together. I was just like, oh, man, I would just want to talk about this and that and the other with some of these movies. So my lows and highs are kind of parallel, but for much different reasons. [00:01:17] Speaker C: That's very fair. That's very fair. I recently went camping and I feel the same way where you're just like. There are times where I'm like, man, Thursday night. But like, every time I'm actually here with you guys, I enjoy it so much. And then when I don't get to do it, I'm just like, oh, that's like, yeah, that's a highlight of my week, most weeks. So what about you, Brad? You got a high? [00:01:33] Speaker B: A little for me, yeah. My, my low is the high, actually. It's scorching temperatures here in Texas. And I've been cooking, doing a lot of work outdoors. 115 degrees in the sun, that sort of thing. Just really bacon. It's taken it out of me and. And I'm pretty tired, so I'm glad to be in this partially air conditioned studio. You guys made me turn it down for the recording, so hopefully I won't put too much in here, but I'll be all right. So we're doing okay. [00:02:01] Speaker C: I love that we got to force you to spend more time in the heat. That's. That's great for me. I'm forcing Will to watch movies he does not want to watch. I'm forcing Brian to cook longer than he's supposed to cook. It's a great time. It's a great time. Dan, what about yourself for me? So my high, I'm going to say that this is my first week where I'm going to be starting a new podcast with real Bubba Hotep right after our rating called Backseat Cinema, where we're just gonna be hanging out, talking to each other, talking about movies. We got a little. Couple little games to go over today. We've got the first half of 2026. We're gonna talk about all the movies we've seen, what we thought of them, our biggest highs, our lowest lows as far as cinema goes. So that's gonna be a great time. As far as Lowe's go, I got kind of voluntold to work a couple of doubles this week. So it's been a very, very long week, and I don't feel maybe as prepared as I'd like to for tonight, both for our rating and Backseat Cinema, just because I've spent so much time at work over the last couple of days. Not in the blistering heat like Brian, but, you know, it's. It's still a lot. So those are my highs and my lows, unfortunately. But anyways, we're here to talk about Terminator 2 Judgment Day. As always with this franchise specifically, I have to assume this is none of our first times watching it. Do either of you remember your first time seeing this movie? [00:03:14] Speaker A: Certainly not. I've. I've seen it so many times. No idea when the first time was, but I'm sure I was underage and probably shouldn't have been seeing what I was seeing. [00:03:27] Speaker B: I. I think so. That was probably the same for me as well. My question to you guys is, have you seen the extended cut? Because this week I watched the original version with my kids, and then for the watch party, we put on the extended cut so I could see them one after the other and how they compared. Have you guys seen which. Which version have you seen? [00:03:47] Speaker C: The most recent version I watched was just the regular one that was on. I own this movie, but because we're packing, I had to rent it, which really annoyed me. So I probably own the extended cut, and I've probably seen it at some point, but this week I just watched the regular edition, and off the top of my head, I'm not sure, like, it didn't feel like there was any scene that I was missing. I was like, oh, why didn't we get to see that? So, like, I don't. Like, I'd be curious to hear, having just seen both of them. What is in the extended version for you? What about you? [00:04:13] Speaker A: Yeah, I. I don't think I've ever sat down and watched the extended cut, but I've seen, like, the clips that are included in it, you know, on YouTube or whatever posted. I think I've seen all of those clips. I think the biggest change is in the extended cut is the original ending, Is that correct? Where you see, growing up, John Connor at the park with his kid, Is that right? [00:04:38] Speaker B: I don't. I don't remember seeing that piece. I don't remember seeing that piece. Maybe that version. [00:04:42] Speaker A: Maybe that's just an alternate ending that [00:04:44] Speaker B: they tacked on in special something. Yeah, maybe that was it. What I remember is there's the piece at the beginning where Sarah Connor is in the hospital and she has a vision of Rhys. He comes in, has some really horrible dialogue with her. Zero chemistry. It didn't make any sense. I'm really glad they didn't include it. It was totally unnecessary. [00:05:03] Speaker A: Yes, it is. Yeah. [00:05:05] Speaker B: Yeah. And then. And then there's a piece that they. I wish they would have included, which is when they're in the. The tire store or whatever, they bring the cop car in, they go inside, and they're pulling the bullets out of Schwarzenegger's back and dropping them on the metal tray. They continue that scene and they open up his head and they take the microchip out so that he can reset himself because he states that Skynet will not let him learn on his own. And so they switch that so that he can learn on his own. And in the regular version, they just cut out that last line. And so he's a learning computer, and they don't take the chip out. They don't do anything. There's a sequence where Sarah wants to smash the chip, and he stops her and gives her the choice whether he should or shouldn't. And she, of course, lets him put the chip back in. And then. And then immediately after, you know, Schwarzenegger opens up the car and the. And the kid pulls the keys, down he goes, are we learning yet? It was to follow that sequence to say, you know, is it working? [00:06:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:06:04] Speaker B: So I like that. And then there was a sequence, there was several portions where the T1000 shows that he's taking damage. Toward the end of the movie, he gets very glitchy. His boots will turn into whatever he's walking on, which is a giveaway. When they have the duplicate mother scene, John looks down and sees the boots, and that's what gives it away. There's other sequences where his hand sticks to stuff and he just wigs out. I liked that it showed him taking damage. I guess they didn't want that to be in the original. They wanted him to look tougher all the way to the end. [00:06:36] Speaker C: I would actually like that as well. Like, one of the. One of the things with this movie is you've got just basically two unkillable monsters trying to kill each other the entire time. I kind of liked the dichotomy of the unkillable monster versus the human in the first one. Like the. The David and Goliath of it all. Now, granted, the liquid metal does come across as significantly stronger than Arnold, but not like. Yeah, exactly. Like they're. They're both just unstoppable killing machines. Really. [00:07:05] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I think what the T1000 also brought was a little bit more of the. Yeah, he could blend in more. I felt like he had a little bit of personality when he was talking and interrogating people. Like he went to John Connor's foster parents or whatever and was like, hey, is your son around? I would like to talk to him, blah, blah, blah. And he was very personable and it was kind of like off putting because, you know, he's such a bad guy, but he can, like actually turn that switch on, whereas Arnold's model can't seem to do that. [00:07:39] Speaker C: So that's going to bring me back to a question I wanted to have originally. Last week when you were talking about this, I asked Brian if he would mind talking to his kids. Because I feel like there's a big twist in this movie that none of us think of because we were all, as you say, we were too young to have seen this one. But if you saw this for the first time in theaters, there's a really good chance you walk into this thinking the T1000 is a real person and Arnold is the Terminator coming to kill him. And it's not until you get that hallway scene where it's kind of like. Like what? Like he's the right guy and that's a monster. And even the way this would have film, I was really watching it and paying attention for it this time. Like, you don't see him teleport in, so you don't know if he teleports in in a pose or if he does. Like the Kyle Reese where he's kind of awkward. You see him attack the cop, but not in a way that gives away that he's a monster or a robot. He's more personable with People which would like you to be lean you to believe that he could be a human. Like, they really. Whether the advertising did its job or not, the movie itself really does play him off to be a personable human. Right up until the point where Arnold takes a shot at him and all of a sudden he has this like the hole in them that's like healing instantly. Brian, did it work for your kids? Like, were they surprised? How did that go? [00:08:52] Speaker B: Yeah, both kids did not see it coming at all. They were both like, what? As soon as that he pulls the shotgun out of the box of Roses, which by the way, Guns N Roses was the track and he. A box full of Roses and the gun. I thought that was clever. As soon as he pulls the gun out, both my kids jaw dropped. They had no idea. They were like, I thought he's the bad guy. They, they, yeah, they didn't know that. However, did leave to a question. My eldest son, who is kind of a smart ass, he's like, well, if his clothes are liquid metal, how come he teleported in naked? And I was like, good question. It's the same stuff. So why did he teleport in naked and. And he's still metal, not living flesh. How come it works this time? We didn't get anything that explained that. At least I didn't catch it. [00:09:42] Speaker C: The. So the second part, the how does he come in if he's not living metal? 100 agree. I don't know what the answer to that one is because he theoretically is liquid metal through and through. There's no living tissue. Like that's supposed to be how Arnold comes back or why Arnold comes back. Look, the way he does the first part though, it does make mention that he needs to physically be in contact with something before he can replicate it. So it's not until he body checks the police officer that he can look like the police officer. [00:10:08] Speaker A: Okay, I don't know if I, I heard or read. It's in the novelization or somewhere that they actually talk about. The T1000 goes back in time in like a human flesh sack. And then he sheds it when he, when he arrives. [00:10:27] Speaker B: Oh, he like injects himself inside that. That's horrifying. [00:10:32] Speaker C: That's why they don't show that. [00:10:34] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. [00:10:35] Speaker B: That's Hannibal his way into the future or the past. [00:10:39] Speaker A: Exactly. I don't know if that's fanfic or if that's an actual thing, but I did. I've heard that from multiple places. So that's an interesting thing. [00:10:50] Speaker C: I. I kind of want to see that. And I'm kind of really glad that we didn't at the same time. [00:10:55] Speaker B: So, yeah, before we get into too many of the other details, I kind of want to stick with the plot here on this one because it's my one point of flexibility in my scoring system here. Was this a good plot? Does this continue the plot better from the second one or from the first movie? The first movie we had a gin, which John Connor is actually a gin. He's created by a time paradox, which is him sending his own father back to create him or whatever. And that was kind of a twist ending that it's like, don't think about it too hard. It's just cool, right? And then we get this one, which is now him sending a Terminator back to do it all over again. But it's not like a twist ending or anything. It's just, let's turn the volume up on this and make newer, cooler robots. Does this plot make sense? Does this plot work? [00:11:55] Speaker C: So I think a lot of people talk about the Terminator 1 and 2 as being the good ones, and everything kind of is awful after that. And while watching it, I was kind of like, this really is just the plot to Terminator 3, 4, 5. Like, like, it gets a lot of credence because it was the first one to do it. But, like, from a plot perspective, I haven't seen three plus in a very long time. I've never seen Dark Fate. It feels like they're all just the exact same thing. Like, let's just send two Terminators back and have them fight over not killing somebody for two hours. And then there'll be a lot of explosions and we all go home. Like, I feel like the first one's a bit more original in the sense of, like, what it is trying to accomplish and the fact that it's a human versus Terminator, I don't have an issue with it. My, my, the thing that bothered me the tiniest bit is they're still coming from 2029. And in the the first movie, Will pointed out, like, they talk about the. The factory that created the time machine was destroyed. I'm okay with that because the robots should theoretically have the information to build another factory. But if they're sending them back in the same calendar year, that kind of makes me think they're just like, whatever, we're just sending them back again. Like, I kind of wish that it did go forward. And again, like last week, if they could go forward and then they could only send them back 30 years. That would make sense why they waited until John Connor was 10. Because realistically, like Sarah slash John Connor are gonna be at their most vulnerable when he's being born. Send a robot to that date. Why would you wait till he's 10? Why would you pick her up at 19? Like, if you can control exactly when you send somebody back, there's way better time periods to choose. So that was kind of the issue that I had with it. But as far as just like we're gonna send two robots back and have them fight, it's fun. Why not? At the time it was the first time that it ever happened. [00:13:41] Speaker A: So yeah, I think you're right. The originality comes in that it is the first time. And they did change it up in the way like James Cameron was like, okay, Arnold is this one. Arnold Schwarzenegger's T1000 is the only character that's on the AFI top 100 villains and top 100 heroes. No other character has done that. And so I think James Cameron had a really good idea that's the twist of like no, the Terminator, this most terrifying nightmare machine that will stop at nothing is now going to protect you. And so I think that was a big enough twist in like our expectations that it doesn't matter as much that the story is not as strong because it is a repeat of the first one. And on top of that they increase the threat with the T1000. I. I feel like he, he is a superior model and that comes across in the movie and in much different ways, which is very, very interesting to me. So because of the fun and the. I think as well, I'm just laying it all out there. The characters are better in this movie. Like, I think they're better developed characters in this movie. Sarah Connor really comes into her own in this movie. And you feel her pain, you feel her insanity, you feel, you understand why she will stop at nothing to stop the judgment day from happening. And I just think the through lines of the characters are better established in this movie as well. So I think there's things that make up for the kind of repeat plot at the end of the day. [00:15:28] Speaker B: So Dan, you mentioned them leaving it 29 in both movies. The thing is, in the first movie it was supposed to be this self contained paradoxical plot, right? And John Connor is born because John Connor was there to send Rhys back to create John Connor in this endless loop. That doesn't really make sense. That's why we have a name for it in cinema. But in the sequel, because they left the arm and the chip, they now progressed Skynet faster. And so we have a more developed Terminator going back in time from that point from. From the same time. But they progressed Skynet because they left the chip and the arm, which was new to this franchise. It was introduced in the second movie. So we didn't know that the timeline was changed because that junk was there. I would have thought that the timeline was kind of almost created like the Terminators and John Connor were created because John Connor sent Rhys back in time. Right. But instead, in the sequel, they progress that Skynet further so that they can send back a more sophisticated robot. And I think. I don't remember, but I think in future movies, they just do it. Well, we're trying it again. Let's not get complicated about it. Here's a female robot. Here's a robot made out of gas. Here's a robot that has sharp laser [00:16:56] Speaker A: beams, spoiler alerts, whatever. [00:16:59] Speaker C: The. The gas robot would be very interesting. [00:17:00] Speaker B: And you're right. I do think, because this is the first one that does it again, it's good and it's fun, and they did it right. And the dynamics are there. [00:17:08] Speaker A: It's. [00:17:08] Speaker B: It's a little bit of a twist. And they do put the. I think a much better job acting by Arnold Schwarzenegger as this Terminator and creating that, hey, he's not a bad guy, and he's now a good guy. And let's look at it from this whole new perspective. So it makes this one good. Whereas I think the next ones are going to just fall apart. [00:17:27] Speaker C: So I do want to go back to something you were just talking about. Are you saying that for this movie, the 2029 that they come from is a vastly different 2029 that I think. [00:17:36] Speaker B: So, yes. [00:17:37] Speaker C: The first guy came from that was [00:17:38] Speaker B: progressed because the arm and the chip were left behind, and it advanced them further than they should have been. [00:17:44] Speaker C: Is the first movie the first time those events are happening? [00:17:50] Speaker A: William will never know. [00:17:53] Speaker C: Well, because if it. If it's not, then it would be the same 2029. [00:17:58] Speaker B: So this could be it. It could be that John Connor goes, I know I'm supposed to send Rhys back to save my mother, but if I just send a robot back a little later in time, after I'm born, I get the same results. So maybe he doesn't send Rhys back this time, but John doesn't get born. I don't know. It's bending my brain. This is the problem with time travel movies. [00:18:20] Speaker C: I Which is why, like, they just. They just fix it. If they say, oh, we sent him from 2032. [00:18:26] Speaker B: Yeah. Time travel is the ultimate reboot mechanic. So they really can do whatever the hell they want to. And they do in the franchise. Heads up there. [00:18:33] Speaker C: Sure. [00:18:33] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I'm sure. [00:18:35] Speaker C: It's just going to bother me if they're constantly sending it from 2029 because, like, the last movie is like 2019, 2020 or something like that. Like, they're only sending it nine years back now. Like, that's. That's weird. Like, it makes more sense if you're going from like 2050 back. Also, it's very weird to have these time travel movies like we saw with Back to the Future, where we are now past the future date, or Predator, where they're like the far future of 1997, you just like, giggle to yourself. We're getting awfully close to 2029. Like, it's. [00:19:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:04] Speaker C: Not a lot of time for Skynet to take over at this point. [00:19:06] Speaker A: That's true. I mean, again, with time travel movies, these loops. If you talk about it too much, it falls apart. I think we established that from the first movie. So you just can't think about it. And that's the action movie way. What I have to accept. But for me, the only thing that really stood out at the beginning is, and I know why they did it, Arnold drops in first because we think as the audience, he's the bad guy. So he's there to kill, you know, Connor. But he's actually the good guy, which means he was sent. He knew that they were going to send the T1000. John Connor knew in the future that they were going to send the T1000 first. So he preemptively sent his Terminator. How does that work? [00:19:55] Speaker C: I mean, they could have theoretically not known that they were going to send a T1000, but if you've got time travel and a Terminator, just send them. Why not? Like, yeah, protect me from anything. What. What are we gonna do? [00:20:07] Speaker B: Also, it could be that the T1000 went back first and they looked at the machine and said, okay, here's the date he went to. Let's send him back to the same date, just a different location. Or let's send him back a few hours earlier. [00:20:21] Speaker A: Three hours early. [00:20:22] Speaker B: Yeah, maybe, whatever. I don't know why they wouldn't send him a few weeks earlier. Let him give him an advantage there. But. And I mean, simultaneously, you just can't show that in a. In a film. Right. [00:20:33] Speaker C: That's exactly what I was just gonna say. They could be the exact same night, and it's just. You can't have them both happening at the same time. [00:20:38] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, that's fair. It just was odd to me. But also, I think the trailers for the movie, when it originally came out did ruin that. Arnie was the good guy. I'm pretty sure they. [00:20:52] Speaker C: Sure he's the good guy. [00:20:54] Speaker B: Like, literally, like, if I was James [00:20:57] Speaker C: Cameron, I would be so livid at that team for spoiling that, because he clearly films it so that if you're walking into this blind, you think, or if you've seen the first movie, you think, oh, my God, he's the bad guy. He's gonna kill this kid. Wait, what? And, like, this is one of those movies where, like, people always ask you, like, if you could see a movie again for the very first time, what would you pick? This one has a. A bigger twist than I think most people give credit for, probably because the advertisements ruined it, which I think is really unfortunate. [00:21:27] Speaker A: On top of that, James Cameron went out of his way and gave Stan Winston, I think his name is the guy who created the chassis and everything. He gave him, like, $150,000 to create a teaser trailer. It doesn't have any footage from the movie. He actually just. I don't know if you remember it. It's just like the assembly line of the Terminator chassis. And then it, like, turns the eyes glowing, looking directly at the screen. [00:21:51] Speaker B: I remember that one. [00:21:52] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, The Terminator's coming in whatever, July. [00:21:55] Speaker C: He'll be back. [00:21:57] Speaker A: He'll be back. Yeah. And it was, like, epic. It was an epic teaser trailer because you just saw the machine. You saw the glowing eyes, the. The horror you remember from the first one. But it doesn't give away any of the movie. It's like the perfect trailer. And then, of course, closer to the movie's release, they just ruin it with all the other trailers. [00:22:15] Speaker C: We honestly need to get back to trailers like that, where they're just like, look how exciting this concept is. See it in the movie theaters this time. Like. Like, that's all I need. [00:22:23] Speaker B: Like, I think trailers today give away way too much of the movie. I hate it. I try to avoid trailers. I just wait for my friends to say, it's good. Go see it. And I go see it. [00:22:33] Speaker C: Well, especially, like, nowadays. Sorry, I do trailer reactions on the show. They just brought out a new Spider man one. Spider man comes out in eight days. Like, do we need more information at this point? You're either in or you're out. [00:22:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:47] Speaker C: Anyways, we don't need to talk about that. I'm just one of those things that bothers me. [00:22:51] Speaker B: So we have a child actor in the movie and surprise, surprise, I don't hate him. I don't hate him. Now, I am glad that they don't give him too many tough scenes because the toughest scenes that he does, he doesn't handle very well. But the rest of the film, I like his character. I understand his character. And he does a good job in these action sequences. Running around screaming, his voice cracking. I feel like he's a young kid, he's angsty little brat, and he's, you know, kind of being a. A dick to his foster parents. I get this kid and I kind of liked Edward Furlong. What'd you guys think about him? [00:23:27] Speaker C: I'm gonna go ahead and say I think he did fine in the role. I did not like his character. He annoyed the crap out of me. I wanted to slap him multiple times. He just. He's. How do I word this? I. My parents were foster parents, so I grew up in a foster home. I spent a lot of time around kids just like this one F this kid. I'm sorry. [00:23:48] Speaker A: Wait, wait, so does that mean it was well done, though? Because. [00:23:51] Speaker C: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. He did a good job. But that doesn't mean I like the character. [00:23:56] Speaker A: Right. Okay, I can totally see that. I mean, I'm the same way. I actually enjoyed the performance. I think Edward Furlong did a pretty good job. James Cameron went through, like thousands of kids who are like commercial kids. And he was like, these kids are brutal. They're like, so like, look at the camera and eat your Cheerios. And then he found Edward Furlong, who wasn't really an actor at the time, and. And thought he was pretty good because he could at least get across some raw emotions. And he did come across. He was like a kind of a hard knock kid. He grew up without a father in real life, and so he was kind of more rough around the edges. And so he. He wanted to go that way with the character. And I think, I think that shows on screen. The biggest problem for me with this John Connor, who is, I think, my favorite so far and I've seen a few movies in the future. Weird, is that they had to ADR almost all of his vocals after filming because the filming took so long and his voice cracked from puberty. So there's a. A few times where you can notice, like, oh, that's not quite looking quite right or sounding quite right throughout the movie if you. If you really stop and listen. But overall, I think he did a pretty good job. [00:25:14] Speaker C: I was wondering because, like, when they're in the desert, like, when they're collecting all the guns and what I'm like, he all of a sudden looks significantly younger than he did a second ago. Like, I wonder if that's one of the scenes they filmed first, because it's like. Like, maybe I'm crazy. I don't know. But, like, all of a sudden, you. You just lost, like, a year, 100. Which is a lot when you're 12. [00:25:34] Speaker A: Yeah. And I heard, like, as. As they filmed and he grew, they actually had to, like, dig holes for him to stand in. Linda Hamilton. So they didn't change the height differential. So it's, like, crazy, you know, what you have to do, you know, in film sometimes. So working with children. But, yeah, overall, I think he did okay. [00:25:54] Speaker B: And, hey, Linda Hamilton. What. What a great performance by her. I really liked her in this. To come back as the same Sarah, but after a lot more mileage and mental anguish dealing with what she's trying to get through, having her son taken away, and then the frustration of her being trapped in that mental institution. She did a great job performing this character, even when she's, you know, popping off on Miles, wanting to, you know, take him down a peg or two or just off him altogether. So really liked her performance in this. Dan, what about you? [00:26:30] Speaker C: I thought she did a phenomenal job. You mentioned, or maybe Will mentioned, he liked the characters more in this film. I think she did a really good job in both films for where she's at in her life. [00:26:40] Speaker B: Right. [00:26:40] Speaker C: Like, she's just in 1984. She's just a waitress. She's got really no cares in the world. She's trying to have a good time on a Friday night. I think she did a pretty good job portraying that. And then this one, it's theoretically 10 years later. She's 29. She knows these horrible things are coming. She seemed really PTSD ridden. I mean, I've never been through what she's been through, but, like, she didn't see the future, but she's, like, having nightmares about the future. It was a little bit weird, but I think she did a great job as this, like, survivor type or wanting to be survivor type. I loved her outfit when she does go to kill. [00:27:18] Speaker A: Miles. [00:27:18] Speaker B: Miles. [00:27:19] Speaker C: Miles. Thank you. The black outfit, the armless sleeves. I think she just looks Fantastic. Yeah. I have no complaints with. With her portrayal in this movie. [00:27:31] Speaker A: Yeah. Just to. Just to jump off on that, I also like that they brought back Dr. Sybil Siberman from the first one. You know, he was the police psychiatrist or whatever. He's like, I'm gonna make my. I'm gonna make my living off of you. And then in this movie, he's actually, like, bringing classes to study her. And I think it really adds to her character being like, oh, yeah. They are just treating her so horribly in this mental institute, and you just know it. And there's even the guy that, like, licks her face, like, you know, the darkness she's going through. So, like, her unstable mental state is just so earned in this movie for me. I. I just. I just loved everything about it. [00:28:12] Speaker C: And. [00:28:13] Speaker A: And I did like that callback to that character. [00:28:17] Speaker B: Yeah. When she escapes out of the mental institution, she's got the Drano in the guy's neck. [00:28:22] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:28:22] Speaker B: And she's like, you're all dead to me. You know, I believe it. He's like, yeah. [00:28:25] Speaker A: Open the gate. Open the gate. [00:28:28] Speaker B: It was. It was really good. You know, they did that so well. I mean, I believed that escape. It was a fantastic scene. I. [00:28:39] Speaker C: I don't know what her plan was beyond that. Like, obviously Arnold shows up and she's. She's all good, but, like, having worked in a correctional facility for the last 20 years, I'm like, you're not getting out the front door. It's. It's just not happening. Especially now that you lost your. Your hostage. Like, you're not going anywhere. Like, there'll be so many Sally Ports around that place, there's no chance you're getting out. But a Terminator shows up, so she's fine. Good for her. [00:29:05] Speaker A: And I think you just have to be like, she has to try. And she knows she has to try because she knows now there's absolutely no way they're ever going to let her go, so she's just going to go for it. [00:29:15] Speaker B: And they just showed her the pictures of Arnold, who she thinks is going to go after her son. So she's got to try. Leads us to one of the. Really one of the best special effects scenes in the movie. Now, of course, the special effects got a little dated in this one. Almost. We'll get into it, but he walks through the bars, man. And then the gun gets stuck. That was such a cool way for. For everybody in the room to get caught up to speed without a single word being said. Yep. That guy's Liquid metal. His gun is real. He's gonna come kill me. Like, that's. That's it. That's sequence. And it's shocking. You've got the Doctor with, you know, the pen cap falls out of his mouth to the floor because he's just seen too much. Fantastic sequence right there. I really like how they put that one together. [00:30:01] Speaker C: I do mildly wish it doesn't need this. And honestly, if it had it, I might not like it. But, like, for how much of a dick the Doctor is in two movies, I would have loved for something bad to have happened to him other than just, like, he realizes they're like, oh, she's right. But whatever. Like, theoretically, I'd like her to do something to him. Not necessarily kill him, but just, like, see. But at the same time, if he does, then, like, if she does, then, like, so be it. [00:30:28] Speaker A: But that's the other thing that makes him such a horrible person, is he actually knows she's telling the truth because he saw the other Terminator from the first movie. [00:30:38] Speaker C: No, it doesn't. [00:30:39] Speaker A: No, he didn't. [00:30:41] Speaker C: He bumps into him on the way out. Yeah. [00:30:43] Speaker B: He turns his back and the Terminator goes right behind him. And then he turns around. He just misses him by a second. [00:30:49] Speaker A: Right. But I. I believe the. What happened in the first movie. There's like, obviously they see this guy coming through and wiping the whole police station. Like, he knows she went through this trauma. [00:31:01] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:01] Speaker A: Whether, like, you can predict the future. Sure. Maybe not. But she knows. Or he knows she went through this horrible event and does nothing about it. [00:31:10] Speaker B: But then in. [00:31:11] Speaker A: Yes, in this one, he leaves just as the Terminator arrives, which is, like, super funny, too. I like that. And, yeah, I just like that character because of. He's such a. He's such a terrible person. And it goes across well. [00:31:25] Speaker C: The one thing I wish we'd gotten a little bit more of is. I don't know when you would have fitted in, but I just thought it was such a cool effect. It was such a cool point in the movie is Wengler in the asylum and T1000 is the floor and he gets the guy to walk across him. And that's how he gets the, I don't know, DNA or whatever. So he can turn into him is by having somebody interact with him. Completely annoying. And then he, like, merges up from the floor. There were some effects in this that did not hold up very well. I thought that one, considering how old this movie is, actually still looked pretty. Pretty good. [00:31:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:57] Speaker C: And made sense for how he turned into that person completely unknowingly, unwillingly. I. I really liked that scene. It was one of those, like, oh, can we do more of that, please? [00:32:06] Speaker B: And I believe that that security guard is actually a twin. And that's how they pulled that off. [00:32:12] Speaker A: Okay, yes, absolutely. We've seen that. Those twins before. If you all remember Gremlins 2, they were a couple of the. [00:32:20] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Abby [00:32:23] Speaker A: in Gremlins 2, the. The Twin played brothers in that, obviously. And then James Cameron utilized them in this so that they didn't have to use any special effects. Not to mention they used twins in another scene with Linda Hamilton's twin sister. So in the extended version, when they're taking out the. The little learning chip, it's actually a false mirror and it's Linda Hamilton's sister and Arnie on one side, and she's mimicking her actions from the back with the robot, which is kind of cool. And then at the end, Obviously, when the T1000 is Linda Hamilton's character, it's her twin sister there as well. [00:33:07] Speaker B: And you know that mirror scene in the extended cut? I knew that and I was watching for it. And they do a really good job with that. Like, even knowing that's happening, it's hard to see any flaws in that scene. They did a great job covering that up. I. I didn't know that was her twin sister at the end. And if you think about it, the T1000 had Linda Hamilton's DNA right from the jump because he actually stabs her in the shoulder from the elevator when they first get. Try to leave the. The insane asylum. [00:33:34] Speaker A: That's right. [00:33:36] Speaker C: Good call. Good call. [00:33:39] Speaker A: Very cool. Very cool. [00:33:41] Speaker B: So love the T1000. Thought he was a great character. I loved all the tricks they did with him, all the special effects when he's flying the helicopter, and he has a third arm controlling the helicopter while he's reloading the guns. A lot of people miss that. I think it's a really fun little thing they throw in there all the different liquid metal things. When they use the mercury to do the liquid metal in the scene where he gets blown to pits and it's melting that one, the metal looks different than all the other scenes, but it still looks real cool, so I like it. I don't know. How do you guys rate the special effects in this movie? Because way bigger budget. Much further in our legitimate future. They had a lot more tools. I almost want to be more critical of this movie's special effects than the first one because of that. I feel like it's pretty good. But what they were working with in the last one makes it feel better. [00:34:34] Speaker C: I feel like the special effects in both of them to some extent, you have to gauge them by the time that they came out. [00:34:43] Speaker A: Right. [00:34:43] Speaker C: Like, it's easy to pick apart things now. But the liquid metal in 91, really good. [00:34:54] Speaker B: Like, even near flawless, [00:34:58] Speaker C: even in 2026, it's still very serviceable. I mean, it'd be a much less low. It'd be a much lower budget movie by today's standards if it looked like this. But like it. I mean, there's a couple of scenes that do look bad, but a lot of it still looks good. And for being 25. 35. 25 years. 35, whatever. For being a long time ago, I. I think. I think it still holds up pretty well. And some of the scenes legit do look really good. Like when he's running, he's got like the crowbar arms, chasing the police car and like hanging on. I see no flaws in that. That looks actually pretty solid to me. It's only in certain times when he's got like the holes in him that you're kind of like, oh, okay, that. I see how you did that. I can probably do that on Canva right now. [00:35:44] Speaker B: I think some of the worst parts for me were when the. They were just driving around in the car and you could see like the green screened in traffic going behind them with the wind blowing in their hair. And it just. It looked bad. I was like, man, this looks like old western right here. Like, this is really bad. That was the worst parts for me. But I don't know. What about you, Will? [00:36:02] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, overall, I agree with Dan, and maybe it's a little bit of the nostalgia in me, but I feel like the effects, CGI specifically, hold up really good. And you can kind of put it into a little bit of like, this is a liquid metal thing that has been created. So how do we know if it acts exactly like Mercury would act for us today? So I think you can kind of give it a pass in some of that. But overall I think it still looks really good. You guys mentioned that this was a bigger budget. This at the time was the biggest budget movie to produce. It was 100 million to produce. James Cameron, known for that kind of shenanigans. But it pays off in the end as well, right? Yeah, I think the T1000 is really good. Just like Brian, my favorite CGI scene is when he goes through the bars and takes that moment when the gun doesn't come through. And he's just like, wait a minute, what is. Oh, here we go. It's just so well done. And I have to give a big shout out to Robert Patrick. I think he just does a phenomenal job as this character and the way he moves, it's just perfect. But overall, I think it holds up a lot because there's still so many practical effects in this movie. It's still majority practical effects. There's only like 42 or so CGI scenes or elements in this movie. And to me, that, that says a lot. It's like they used it when it's absolutely necessary, not as a convenience. And that's a huge difference from a lot of movies today. I find [00:37:42] Speaker B: Lord Richter in chat says the sound quality was better in Terminator 2 by far than the first one. I have to agree and disagree. I felt they had great scoring in T2 as well. But at some times I was like, you're kind of hitting me over the head with this sound now. And some of the gunshots and explosions sounded a little false. But honestly, still top tier sound for a movie of its day. [00:38:11] Speaker C: I didn't have any issue with the sound effects per se, although I've never really fired a gun, so what do I know? Maybe they sound very different than I think they should, but they all sounded fine to me. The one, and this is a personal bias that bothered me and it played for quite some time. I, I, I'm sure that, like, Bad to the Bone is supposed to be a badass rock song. It is so effing cheesy in my mind and like, it's the kind of thing that I expect in A Never ending story 3. When you play it in Terminator 2, I don't think you're a badass. I think you're a joke. And it just, that song went on for so long and I'm just like, please make it stop. Please, please, dear God, make it stop. I'm so over this song. Please do. God, no. [00:38:53] Speaker A: I think that's a good segue into this movie. Substantially upped, increased the jokes that were throughout. What did you guys think? Brian, what did you think about Cameron adding all the jokes into this film? [00:39:08] Speaker B: You know what? I, I really liked it. I liked it even more with the extended cut because of some of the explanations of the learning curve of the Terminator. Termina. They have a scene where he's like, oh, you gotta smile. You gotta try and smile like this. And Schwarzenegger keeps smiling and failing miserably at it. Again, credit to him for acting like a great robot trying to learn how to be human. But, you know, by the end of it, he was able to smile in certain ways that looked badass. And there was a reason for it. It fit with the plot. So the, the smile joke was great. All the little sarcasm from Furlong I liked. At no point did I not like the humor. I like the Bad to the Bone scene. You're right. The song did go on for too long. I just needed to hear the. And I would have probably enjoyed it right about then, but it was. It was good. I. I thought the humor was great. What about you, Dan? [00:40:01] Speaker C: I'm trying to think of what you're talking about with the humor. And I think most of it is between Ed Furlong and the Terminator. And I think. I think Mike not liking his character hurts my appreciation of the humor. [00:40:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:14] Speaker C: So him being like, oh, you gotta say, no problemo. I'm like, shut up, kid. Just shut the up. Like, I'm [00:40:21] Speaker A: the baby. I'll give you an example of maybe some humorous bits that aren't there directly. [00:40:27] Speaker C: Sure. [00:40:29] Speaker A: When Arnie's going through and they're get. They're shooting the gas cans at him and he's just kneecapping everybody through the building. [00:40:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:37] Speaker C: Okay, that's fair. He'll live is a great line. [00:40:41] Speaker B: And then. [00:40:41] Speaker A: And then he's got the huge minigun just. Just spewing at the cars. And then at the end, it's like zero casualties. [00:40:50] Speaker B: Super funny. [00:40:51] Speaker A: Super funny. [00:40:53] Speaker C: Like, at that point, the cops have to know he's not trying to hit them because, like, you would accidentally hit somebody with that kind of gun. [00:41:00] Speaker B: Right. Like, oh, we've set the grenade launcher, blows up a couple more cars and still doesn't get anybody. Yeah, yeah. They gotta figure it out by then. [00:41:07] Speaker C: I. I wanna. Like, so when he's tear gassing the cops or he's kneecapping all the cops, and then the last one he just hits with the tear gun canister in the back. I'm like, that guy got off so light compared to everybody else. [00:41:18] Speaker A: Like, I don't know. [00:41:19] Speaker C: I've never been shot with a grenade launcher, but I gotta assume it hurts less than a bullet to the kneecap. [00:41:24] Speaker A: 100%. Yeah. So anyway, those were the kind of things I thought were lighter in this movie. But I feel like Brian said he enjoyed the humor. I. I also think they earned it a lot in this movie as well because of, again, better relationships, better characters, and just better action overall that they could get away with adding some of these lighter tones. And it kind of also kind of felt weird because I think it's still a rated R movie, but because of the young John Connor and because of these lighter elements, it almost feels like it's directed towards younger viewers as well. So it's a weird mix. It's kind of like a Pixar movie before Pixar. [00:42:07] Speaker C: I mean, in fairness, all of us saw it too young, so clearly the right audience. [00:42:12] Speaker B: And my kids probably saw it too young. Also, my wife walks in just as John Connor's foster mother puts her spear through the dad's head and she's like, are you serious, Brian? I'm like, come on. There's the one scene and then she happens to walk back through when the, when the twin stabs himself in the eye, like, okay, just those two, honey, I swear, I'm like, please don't let her walk back through. And he's got Sarah Cotter pinned to the wall with a spear. [00:42:40] Speaker C: Super funny. My, my, my. Sorry, a side tangent. I'll cut this out, maybe. My dad is infamous for walking into a film, any film, middle of a sex scene. Like, no matter what movie you're watching, most wholesome movie ever. If they're going to make love, that's when he walks in the room. He's like, what are you guys watching? Like, I see. Swear it's pg. Like, I. It's good though. [00:43:03] Speaker A: That's good. It's great. [00:43:05] Speaker C: I, I did. I will say that the humor in this, even though it may or may not have worked as well for me, it all was character appropriate, if that makes sense. Like, the humor nowadays is been very, like, changed by the mcu, if you will, where everybody is making quips and there's no quips in this movie. It's just character appropriate lines. So I appreciate that at least. [00:43:30] Speaker A: I agree. Because yeah, in the mcu, it feels like they'll, they'll quip out instead of like tackling serious issues. Whereas in this there's just humorous characters doing humorous things. But like the dark, you know, mentally anguished characters, they're not super funny in this. They are still going through it and they show that. And that's good that they have that contrast. I think that's what makes the humor work a little bit more in this case. [00:43:57] Speaker B: And I think that this one is a little more action driven than it is creepy scary. Like the first one. I mean, the first one was more we're, we're in a fight for our lives. This was more like, I don't know we're going to survive, we're going to fight back, we're going to run away or something, change the future. Like it felt they felt more driven to do something rather than just fleeing in absolute terror of Schwarzenegger. I mean, you've got a Terminator to help protect you. You don't feel completely helpless. So, and, and I, and I kind of felt that way in this film. [00:44:30] Speaker A: 100%. [00:44:30] Speaker C: Yeah. I feel like this movie, I always kind of equated it with the Alien franchise because again, I also forgot that the first Terminator was directed by James Cameron. So it's like, okay, you have like a slasher horror, sci fi movie and then James Cameron comes in and makes it an action movie and that, like, obviously they're both James Cameron. I know that now, I'm whatever. But they feel like they're kind of in the same lines in that way. Like Aliens is a far more action based movie than Alien is. I feel the same way. I feel like the first one's kind of a weird slasher flick and now Terminator 2 is much more of an action movie. [00:45:05] Speaker A: And I think that that goes to show James Cameron's skill and knowledge of like, okay, if we're doing a sequel, it has to be different. And so even that genre shift helps make this feel like a different movie. Even if the plot is similar and you pick up on it right away. Like, Arnie drops in and he's not really often people anymore. He's just kind of tossing them about until he gets his clothes. Whereas in the first one he's just crushing people right from the jump. So that it did feel less like horror forward, I guess, right? [00:45:42] Speaker C: Yeah. If you like what we do and you want to help support us, consider joining our Patreon. There's a link down below. Shout out to our producers as well as our executive producer, Dino, and of course our head writer, Real Bubba Hotep. Next week we're going to be doing our Patreon pick and this month it is going to be no escape from the 1990s. I forget the exact year, so we're looking forward to that one. Thank you so much, Bubba Hotep, for choosing it for us. [00:46:08] Speaker B: Terminator 2. I was very curious about this film to see watching it back to back with Terminator 1. How am I going to remember this? Was this the superior film or was it the original? How do I like it? And it turns out it's a tie. Now, there are several things that the original did better, but the acting was so much Superior in this sequel that it ended up becoming a wash comes in at a 92. [00:46:35] Speaker C: Terminator 2 is a bit of a mixed bag for me. I mentioned last week that I hadn't seen this one in like 20 years, and I couldn't remember exactly why. Re watching this one. There are some very, very high highs for me. I think some of the character work is fantastic. I think the acting does improve significantly, especially from Arnold Schwarzenegger. I actually like Linda Hamilton's character better in this one, although I think she does a good job in the first one I just found less interesting. Like I. I feel like the unstoppable force versus humanity in the first one made for a more compelling narrative, whereas in this one, getting the Terminator versus the slightly better Terminator. It. It just didn't have the same we're in really desperate trouble here feel to it. Like, obviously, Robert P. Robert Patterson. Robert Patrick's T1000 is terrifying, but when you've got an Arnold Schwarzenegger on your team, I just don't feel as dire as I did in the first one. The special effects are incredible. I think it holds up really well. There were. There were even some scenes in this one where it just felt like they went on for a really long time. Like the Cyber dying, Cyber Skynet scene, wherever that is, where they're with Miles and they're destroying the whole building. Felt like it went on for a really long time and just kind of slowed down the pacing of the movie where I didn't feel that in the first one. I felt like it had pretty decent pacing from beginning to end. I. I don't want to give these a tie, but they are super neck and neck as far as which one's better could just matter. Based on the day, based on the time that I'm watching them right here, right now, I am going to give the edge to Terminator 2, but honestly, it's. It's minor. I gave the first 185. I'm giving this one an 87. I think. I think it just does some things a lot better, but it just misses on a couple others. [00:48:23] Speaker B: All right. [00:48:24] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, we talked about everything. I'm still a big fan of the T1000. I think Robert Patrick just went all in on this role and I found him to be actually a superior, scary Terminator, A true infiltration unit compared to the T800, Arnie's model. And so I thought that really propelled this forward. And. And you still feared for the lives of the. The soft, fleshed humans Even if they had their own Terminator on side. I find this movie to be one of the very few occurrences in film that the sequel is better than the original and. But much like Dan, it's very close, and I could pop in either one at any given day and think it's better. But I also do feel like there's a shift in genre here, which makes me rate it slightly different as well. The first one was more of a horror thriller slasher movie. This one's more of a pure action movie. And that's okay. I still always have a soft spot for the Terminator just because of the passion, and making a blockbuster on such a low budget was just a task on itself. But T2 wins the day today just because of the better character arcs, the better effects, the better action, the better practical. We didn't even mention my favorite practical effect, which is when the T1000 gets frozen by whatever it is, that cold gas, and he's, like, walking still and breaking apart. And like, the thought of them just using, like, an amputee guy inside of a mask. It's so cool to watch this and think, wow, this is all practical. Just blows me away every time I see it. It's still looks fantastic. Not to mention just the use of CGI as a necessity, not just everyday CGI use that we have today. So overall, this is an 86 out of 100 for me. I do enjoy me some T2. [00:50:28] Speaker C: And with that, we see Terminator take over the top spot on our rating, with scores of 86, 92, 84, for a grand total of 87. Now, of course, this is only two movies in. We still have four more to go, but right here, right now, Terminator takes the top spot. And I'm. I'm. I'm not mad at it. I don't know. It's. It's my favorite franchise on here at the moment, but I'm not mad at it. It's only got one way to go from here, right, guys? [00:50:54] Speaker B: The question is, how far is it gonna fall? [00:50:57] Speaker C: Exactly. Exactly. [00:50:59] Speaker A: We've got, what, six movies total? We know we've seen this arc before, and. Oh, yeah, to go, but down, unfortunately. But I mean, as the first two movies, I think. I think it's in a good spot right now. [00:51:15] Speaker C: It's. I mean, it's two movies by Quentin Tarantino versus two movies by James Cameron, and Cameron's coming out on top. So, I mean, arguably, two movies by Quentin Tarantino at least. [00:51:26] Speaker A: Right. [00:51:27] Speaker C: And not only that, but obviously this also will make its Way onto our top ten list, meaning that we have two Terminators movies in our top ten. This is tying for eighth place with Prey. Yes. I'll take the blame for that. I don't know how much longer this goes down there. It did knock Alien off the list, which is a little unfortunate, but I feel about Terminator 2 being on the list. [00:51:54] Speaker A: I'm mad at Aliens off the list because I actually prefer Alien over both of these movies, but that's just me. Maybe it's just like the genre I prefer, but. Yeah, it's sad to see them go, but they're not bad movies to replace. [00:52:08] Speaker B: Yeah. We're still looking at our childhood right here. [00:52:11] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Not getting any better. [00:52:14] Speaker C: I think, as Will said, you could look at this list and pretty much guess exactly when we were born. [00:52:21] Speaker A: Oh, well, so be it. We are who we are. [00:52:24] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:52:28] Speaker A: Yeah. That's why we've got the Patreon pick to help get some variety up in there for us. [00:52:32] Speaker B: Right. [00:52:33] Speaker C: Just change it up a little bit. I mean. [00:52:34] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:52:35] Speaker C: I think we've only got one Patreon pick. City of God is the only Patreon pick on here at the moment. [00:52:39] Speaker A: I know, I know. [00:52:40] Speaker C: And it's going to be, like, harder and harder and harder to get on this list. The list is getting higher and higher. [00:52:48] Speaker A: Yeah. But we'll find some. I'm sure we will. We got a lot of good Patreon picks come through, and I'm sure we'll get a lot more in the future, maybe even this Sunday. [00:52:58] Speaker B: I'm. I'm curious if, like, after a couple of years, if you guys ever want to give each other maybe, like, a revisit token? Like, we can go back and revisit one of our scores from a previous film and be like, you know what? I. After watching both these movies, this score should be higher than this one. So I'm gonna use my token. [00:53:15] Speaker C: Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm the only one who's done that before. [00:53:18] Speaker A: Right. [00:53:18] Speaker C: Like, I. I went back and retroactively changed one score because Alien. I think it was Alien. Prometheus. After watching Covenant, I was like, no, I watched Prometheus again. I was right the first time. I'm giving it the better score. I think that's the only time we've changed a score down the road. But, I mean, you're right. I'm sure if we. If we give the audience the ability to do that, Bubba Hotep will jump all over us to go back. Highlander again. [00:53:46] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:53:46] Speaker A: Islander will be back in the spotlight, baby. [00:53:49] Speaker C: Yeah, Highlander's back on the menu, boys. [00:53:52] Speaker B: Right. Right there. He's already justice for Highlander. Already in chat. [00:53:56] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, yeah. We go back and forth on that one. A bunch of. All right, that is our rating of Terminator 2 Judgment Day, but what's yours? Leave a comment down below. I'd love to hear what you have to say. We record this live every Thursday night at 9:00pm Eastern over at Twitch TV, the Mongoolie Show. So if you want to hang out with us live, you can head over there, hit the follow button, or if you made it this far in the video, you probably enjoyed it. Make sure you hit like and subscribe so that I see you in the next one. [00:54:24] Speaker A: Sam.