R Rating Ep14 - Alien 3

[00:00:00] Speaker A: If she was not already a parent, Ripley is here to prove again that she is one badass mother. Alien Cubed drops Ripley into a penal colony planet with all male prisoners waiting for their judgment at the end of days. Luckily, Ripley's escape pod has just the stowaway to bring everyone in the cube. [00:00:22] Speaker B: To meet their maker. [00:00:24] Speaker C: Mongoolie's movie madness. It's a sight to behold. Mongoolie's passion for films never close up. From classics to new releases. Let's start the show. [00:00:58] Speaker B: Get right into it, because this movie, for those who have not seen it, does take place on a prison planet. The opening intro with all like the credits and whatnot, has very, very fast clippets that show kind of what happens to the ship in between Alien 2. And now, much like how Alien aliens took place right after Alien, this one takes place right after Aliens 3 or Aliens 2. My apologies. So you get little clippings of what happens to the rest of the cast and then you see the ship eject and the little pod land on this prison planet. Fury 106 or 161. What do you guys think about the fact this takes place on a prison planet? Because for me, I love the idea that they take this back to basics. You've got a bunch of people, so you have people that can kill. You've got no weapons. So the alien is scary. And it's back to being one menacing alien. Not an entire army of them versus an army of humans. And it is one menacing alien versus a bunch of people without weapons. Does that work for you? Does that make you feel better? Or are you kind of wishing we still had space marines in this one? We'll shoot this one to Brian. [00:01:59] Speaker C: Okay, so last week you asked the question, where do they go from here? We went from a single alien in the. The way Will depicted it as a haunted house story that they expanded on it into aliens doing world building and character building and multiple aliens and guns and going into a war drama type of movie. And Dan, you asked, where do they go from here? Can they come back to a scary idea? Can they. Can they bring the fear back in? Can they make a scary version of this aliens or. Or are they going to do something new, something completely different? And I think what they were attempting to do is they were trying to make it scary. They were trying to come back to one alien. They made it different. We can talk about the different things. In fact, we'll go through the different variations of what they wanted to do before they got to this final Cut. But this final cut is. It's a different alien that's scary in different ways. It's a claustrophobic feeling of being in this prison, right? You can't get out. It's dark, it's cold, it's dank. And then you have one female surrounded by male rapists and murderers. You have no weapons to defend yourself, and how are you going to survive, right? They put all these things that you. You think about that and you're like, man, that's going to make for a real scary movie. What the hell went wrong? [00:03:27] Speaker B: Great question, great question. [00:03:30] Speaker C: I'd like to know, like, seriously, like, when you think about all those pieces, how did this movie fail so hard? Will, did you do some backstory on. On the movie and all the different things that. On this. [00:03:43] Speaker A: Yeah, a little bit. I mean, I've heard some things along the way. I've heard a lot of horror stories about the production of this movie. And you said you. We would, we would touch on what things were supposed to be. I don't know how long we have tonight because there was, I think, up to like 30 different scripts for this movie before it ever got produced. So that's a. That's a lot of. That's a lot we could talk about. Not to mention the production itself was just pulling give and take with the production versus the director. David Fincher, his first feature film direction debut, which was pretty awesome for him, although he now disowns the movie altogether. [00:04:30] Speaker B: So I can't imagine why that's so weird to me. [00:04:33] Speaker C: David Fincher was actually quoted as. I think he. I think the quote was, I hate this movie more than you do was like his quote. They got to the editing process and he bowed out of it and he just said, no, thank you, I'm done with it. Like, that's how much he didn't like it. You know, I mean, you have. You have a Cameron and you have Ridley that made these pre. [00:04:57] Speaker A: The. [00:04:57] Speaker C: The predecessors, and then you have David Fincher. And I don't think he's got the chops to do this, but he had the deck stacked against him with all the things that went wrong. Will's right. There were so many rewrites of the script before they even started recording it. And then when they did record it, they changed it a bunch. There's a sequence at the end when Ripley jumps into the flames and they wanted the chest burster to actually come out and be a queen alien and see that. And they had to go back and refilm that they refilmed that so far afterwards that they had to give her a rubber mask thing to hide her hair because her hair had grown out like two inches. It was just, it was nuts, all the just crazy stuff that went on with this movie. [00:05:39] Speaker A: Yeah, well, that end, she also had in her contract that if she had to shave her head again, it would cost them like 60 grand. And so. [00:05:47] Speaker C: Right. [00:05:48] Speaker A: Instead they did a bald cap makeup look for like half that price. [00:05:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:05:53] Speaker A: Just to save the money. [00:05:54] Speaker C: And so one of the original scripts was done by, oh, he's a famous novelist. Gibson. William Gibson wrote one of the original scripts and it actually had, oh, is it Hicks or. Yeah, Hicks as the main character who they were going to follow. And Bishop was going to be kind of his right hand man, like the co star of the movie. And Ripley was going to be almost a sub character in the film. And they had a completely different setup. It was like on a space station or something. And it was kind of a cool idea. And they, in fact, they actually used that script to make an audio novel and got those characters to do the voices of it. And that's the one I told you guys, where it takes place in between aliens and Alien 3. And they actually like open up her casket. They do the whole movie. They put them all back in the caskets. Or not the movie, the audiobook. They do the whole story. They put them back in the caskets and wipe their memories so that they could make. They wipe Ripley's memory so that they could make it all happen and work Right. Stupid way to make it happen. But they used William Gibson's original script as the main story for that audio book. I think that would have been a lot better because a lot of fans were pissed off that they basically robbed Ripley of all of her gains from aliens. [00:07:26] Speaker A: Right. [00:07:27] Speaker C: Robbed her of her daughter Newt. Robbed her. You know, all the people that survived, everything that happened, they. They robbed her of it. Kind of wiped it clean. And then you get into her script, her acting of how she deals with that loss and she was almost like she looked like she had a hangover. And then she's like, yeah, I'll deal with it and moves on. It was really weird. [00:07:48] Speaker A: There's so much, there's so much to talk about in this movie and about this production and everything that I just don't even know where to start. Now, Brian, you mentioned that David Fincher maybe wasn't up to par with the other two directors of the first two films. And I would argue against that a little bit. [00:08:07] Speaker C: I Think at the time he wasn't up to it. Maybe. I don't know now, but I get the time. He wasn't ready for that. [00:08:14] Speaker A: Three years later, his next movie was Seven and. [00:08:17] Speaker C: Right. [00:08:18] Speaker A: And that was great. [00:08:19] Speaker C: It was. Yes. I'm not saying Fincher's a bad director. I don't think at the time he was ready for that. He had a date, production companies. [00:08:28] Speaker A: Yeah. He may not have the pole to fight against, but I don't think he. I think everything good about this movie is because of him. [00:08:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:08:36] Speaker A: At the end of the day. And there's a lot of good things in this movie. I'm gonna. I'll put it out there. I think the movie looks actually really good. I think, like, he sets up camera angles and such. [00:08:48] Speaker B: Look really good. This movie looks like. [00:08:51] Speaker A: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. [00:08:52] Speaker C: What do you mean? [00:08:55] Speaker A: No, no, no. [00:08:55] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:08:56] Speaker A: Special. There's not. There's not really any special effects. It's all. It's all practical effects. And they tried something at all. No, they were all puppet work. [00:09:08] Speaker C: So they. [00:09:08] Speaker A: What they did was they filmed puppet work on a green screen or blue screen probably, and then they superimposed it on the pictures. [00:09:17] Speaker C: So it was running on the ceiling. Yeah, yeah. [00:09:19] Speaker A: They actually superimposed it on the film and it just. It looks like it's a cut out. [00:09:23] Speaker C: Horrible. [00:09:23] Speaker A: You're right. It doesn't look good. But the actual puppetry and the actual aliens actually look really good. [00:09:30] Speaker C: Anytime it's actually the green hue on the skin of the alien, they couldn't get that washed off of it. [00:09:35] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:09:36] Speaker C: Yeah. So I didn't. Like, every time it's crawling on the ceiling, you just see that green hue to it. [00:09:41] Speaker A: Right. [00:09:41] Speaker C: But anyway about it, you're like, why are there two aliens in this? There's like a red one and a green one. I'm like, no, it's just the green. [00:09:47] Speaker A: Hue and it's just a horrible transposition. Yeah. The biggest thing is like when. When Ripley is in the hospital room or whatever and that the alien comes up and it's like sniffing her. It looks fantastic. All the practical effects that aren't superimposed puppetry running around look fantastic. The movie looks good to me, aside from obviously the issues of the superimposed puppetry. But I don't disagree with the idea of it. The puppet worked because this alien was more animalistic, coming from the dog, AKA the ox. Depending on which version you watched. [00:10:33] Speaker C: It. [00:10:34] Speaker A: Made sense that it needed to move more like a four legged creature than a humanoid creature, because then the best thing that came out of this movie is we learn when an alien impregnates an animal, it takes genes from that animal and mutates from that animal. And so depending on what is impregnated, you get a different kind of looking alien, different acting alien. And I think that sets up a lot for future movies. [00:11:01] Speaker C: Right. [00:11:02] Speaker A: Correct me if I'm wrong, Brian. [00:11:04] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:11:05] Speaker A: So I think there's a lot of good things that came out of this movie, but when it all came together, did it all come together all that well? Maybe not in the end, but I think there is a lot of good things in this movie. And I feel like. Mongolie Dan, you didn't watch or really know anything about the assembly cut. Is that accurate? [00:11:25] Speaker B: That would be correct, yeah. [00:11:27] Speaker A: Because when I said come out of an ox, you were like, what are you talking about? [00:11:32] Speaker C: Yeah, there's a. There's a scene where they show one of the oxen that are used to pull the spacecraft out of the water, which we didn't even see that. And one of those. They winds up, like, dead, and they're like, what killed it? I don't know. And they're, like, hanging it up with a big. Like a meat hook and on a winch, and that would. They leave the room and it bursts out of its chest. And it's supposed to be a much bigger alien. And that's why there's a sequence like in. In the hospital when it comes up behind the doctor in the curtain and grabs him by the head and punches a hole in his head. It looks huge. It towers over him. That was supposed to be the oxen version, which was supposed to be very beastly and big and huge. And we didn't. We didn't really have that. Instead, we got the dog version, but they did have a small canine running around in a rubber suit. And thank God they didn't use that footage because it looked stupid. [00:12:24] Speaker A: It looked really bad. [00:12:26] Speaker C: And so they didn't use that. They used puppetry in front of a green screen. They did the best that they could. Had they been able to wash off that green hue and make that look better, I think. I think that that would have helped me a lot. It doesn't hold up really well because of that. But there are other sequences when the alien charges Dylan in the lead works and you see the steam that looks really good as it charges him. It's kind of a bigger version than what we saw running in the tunnels. I don't care. It looked cool. Plus the fight sequence with Dylan in There was. Was really neat. I was screaming at him and fighting him. There's some really cool scripting that didn't get in there. Some kind of like religious scripting and stuff where he's shouting prayers of anger and stuff as he fights the alien. It was really kind of neat to see everything that went into that scene. What they ended up keeping, what they cut. Lots of cool stuff. There were lots of great scenes in this and there was lots of good acting, both by. Who plays Dylan. I forget. What's his name? I forget the character. Dylan was a great character. I liked his. There we go. Dutton. Yeah. I thought he. I thought he was a great actor. I thought he did a good job in that. I thought there were several really good characters that did a good job of acting. And it's amazing that they were able to pull off those characters so well with how often they changed who was supposed to be in a scene doing what. Like that happened so often. They'd be like. They rewrite a whole scene. There was supposed to be a nest sequence in this one and like a. Like a feeding nest that they made to house the meat on the walls or something. And they completely rewrote that and did character changes. All sorts of weird stuff. So lots. Lots going on behind the scenes in this one to get where we landed. [00:14:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:14:06] Speaker A: Mongoolie. I would recommend. You said you liked the director's cut of Aliens better than the original. Right. I would recommend doing the exact same thing with this and watch the assembly cut. And I feel like you would enjoy the movie more. Not only do they. [00:14:23] Speaker B: Couldn't enjoy it less. [00:14:24] Speaker A: Yeah. Not only do they clean up the alien cgi, the. The whatever. The. The wonky alien puppetry a little bit just with technology. They clean that up a little bit. But they add in a lot that was taken out again on the Prisoner's End. You get to know a little bit more about that. And there's still plot holes. Like, let's be honest, this thing is riddled with plot holes right from the jump. But I do feel like it makes a stronger movie that you would enjoy more. [00:14:56] Speaker B: Okay, fair enough. I'll try and check that out. [00:15:00] Speaker C: Will you. You mentioned plot holes. What do you think about the timing of the alien bursting from the dog Ox and the timing that it takes for the queen to come out of Ripley and maybe even going back into other movies. How long it takes for the Chessburster to gestate. Yeah, I don't know. Like, they do some things on how that works in novels. And stuff and why there's differences, but I just don't quite get it. What do you think? [00:15:32] Speaker A: I think there's. There's a couple of things that could play towards this being. Okay. In the beginning, she's getting some sort of cocktail medicine from the doctor on site that maybe you could play into like holding back the pregnancy of the alien inside of her. The other thing I've is that she is impregnated with a queen. So maybe they take longer in the pregnancy than a run of the mills, run of the mill alien. I don't know. There's like a couple of unknowns that you could I guess, sway in the direction of. Why? Maybe just because Ripley's a badass mother effer and so she could just hold that alien in her chest longer than most people. I don't know. But, but it didn't. That didn't bother me as much as right off the git. Why the hell are there aliens in this movie anyway? There was no aliens left from the previous movie. The egg placement in this movie doesn't make any sense. [00:16:42] Speaker C: Why it's stuck to the ceiling. [00:16:43] Speaker A: Yeah. How it got there, where it came from, none of it made any sense. So it's like at that point you might as well just believe anything this movie's going to tell you. [00:16:52] Speaker C: They cut out the part where in the, in the ox sequence, the guy holds up. [00:16:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:58] Speaker C: He's like, what is this? And he holds it up and the other guy's like, I don't know, we'll chop it up and throw it in the stew tonight. Don't worry about it. And it's, it's a face hugger except it's got thinned fingers and. Yeah. [00:17:10] Speaker A: And it looks more armored and stuff too. [00:17:12] Speaker C: It looks bigger. If you do your research, it is a queen face hugger. And the queen face hugger impregnates one person with the queen and then impregnates another host who with a guardian alien is how it's supposed to work. That's why there's one egg in the corner. That's why Ripley's impregnated and the dog is impregnated. We lose all of that. We don't know any of this, so it doesn't make any sense to us. Nor does it make sense why the egg is stuck up in the corner. Nor does it make sense how the egg got there. You're right. Because the queen dropped her egg laying sack in two. [00:17:45] Speaker B: Or axe. Yeah, yeah. [00:17:47] Speaker C: Thorax, thank you. That's a big word. For me, and she, like. Like, it was a mystery how she snuck aboard the ship in two, but I was like, okay, it makes for a great fight scene. I don't care. But now we have an egg there also. And I'm like, come on. [00:18:03] Speaker A: Yeah, so that. That's the thing is, like, once I realized, okay, this movie is about closing out the trilogy and obviously didn't even do well, I think they close out Ripley's story. Yeah. [00:18:20] Speaker C: Until. [00:18:21] Speaker A: Until, you know, Hollywood said, no, we need more Ripley. Scott. Yeah. [00:18:28] Speaker C: For Alien 4. Exactly. [00:18:31] Speaker A: But, you know, again, if you're. If you're going to continue watching the movie after the first five minutes, when you realize the two protagonists just get killed off screen, it's super dark, there's an alien in there for no plausible reason whatsoever. Multiple aliens in the movie for no. Just. Nothing ever just explained. If you're out of. If you're gonna stick with it for the first five minutes, then you're. You're a fan and you might as well enjoy it. That's what I'm gonna say. [00:19:09] Speaker C: Dan, did the first five minutes tear you apart like it did Will and myself? [00:19:14] Speaker B: So one of the things I want to talk about was the opening cut scenes where they're showing all the little clippets felt really, really quick and rushed. Like, it was just like. Like each individual clip, it was way too short, and it was kind of bothering me. But then I thought, maybe that's kind of intentional. They're too short. Like, it's kind of putting you on edge right away where they're not showing you anything for long enough. Like. And, like, they're giving you exactly what you need to see in that scene. But just something about those scenes, like, if they need to be, like, four seconds long, they're only, like, two seconds long. You're just like, I didn't. I want to see more of that. So I'm not entirely sure if that was intentional or not as far as the actual. What was happening those scenes. I don't know the backstory as much as you guys do, and I don't think you should have to know the backstory as well as you guys do to watch a movie and enjoy it. I feel like if you were going to make a movie, I should be able to sit down, watch the movie and enjoy it. Otherwise, you've made a poor movie and you can give me all the, like, oh, you need to read this book. You need to understand this comic book or something, and that's. That's crap. You should be able to sit down and watch a movie and enjoy it. If you have to watch the, the prequel to the movie, that's one thing that's understandable. But I feel like if you watch Aliens and then you go to this one, you actually have more questions. Like, exactly like you were saying, like, the queen lost her thorax, which, as we saw, was how she laid eggs. So did she carry an egg with her to put on the ship or where did that egg come from? [00:20:29] Speaker C: She just runs back her. [00:20:31] Speaker A: The ball under. [00:20:32] Speaker B: Yeah, I had no idea about the, the, the queen face hugger thing. I assumed, like bees or ants, they just kind of naturally evolve. They're not like a separate thing. So the fact that there was a face hugger now that could not only impregnate two separate people, but could also emit acid somehow, because, like, we know that they've got acid for blood, but we've never seen them like, use acid as an offensive weapon. And this thing was spitting acid all over the place. We see it burn the floor, we see it burn the pod, we see it break through the glass. Like it just. None of it made sense for what we've seen before. As I've mentioned on the show many times, I will go with almost anything your movie says, as long as your movie sticks to its own rules. Once the movie starts breaking its own rules, it really, really bothers me. And that first opening scene broke like seven of its own rules. [00:21:19] Speaker A: And I was like, exactly. [00:21:21] Speaker B: Oh, okay. We're just, we're just going along with whatever happens here. Now, that being said, like Will mentioned, there's a lot of things in this movie that I did enjoy that they introduced. For instance, the face hugger mixed with dog DNA equals new alien. That makes me really curious what we're going to get if we ever run into different aliens or different animal types that could be fun for down in the future. I don't know that we're going to see that, but it's a fun door to have opened or imagination to get going. I actually like the movement of a dog alien way more than the movement of a human alien. I said in the last two movies, oh, this, these don't act like I thought aliens should act this movie. They act like I think aliens should act like. I don't know if I saw this one a long time ago, but this almost feels like I maybe watch this one first and it warps my perception of what an alien is or should do because, like, crawling around on the ceiling and stuff like that feels inherently alien. But that they don't do that in Alien or Aliens now. I mean, obviously they climbed through the ceiling in that one scene and two, but I got the impression they were holding on to pipes. Not just spider, manning it across the seal it. So there's a whole lot that they changed on this one, which was weird. Some of it for the better, some of it significantly for the worse. Even the face hugger on the dog. Like, the face hugger does damage to the dog's face. It's got scars where that thing was. Whereas Frank. That's not the right name. Whoever it was in the first movie. Who dies from the face? Kane. Thank you. Who dies from the first alien? He looks totally fine after the fact. They're just kind of like, oh, that's weird. All right, let's have some dinner. Like, that dog looks messed up, I think. [00:22:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:51] Speaker C: Fight the alien off is what happened. [00:22:54] Speaker B: Could be. But this also was an alien that has acid. So maybe it had acid on its arms or something and, like, burned the dog's face. I have no idea. [00:23:01] Speaker A: I also think that maybe they purposely. Because I. They actually had to, like, they shaved the dog to make it look like it had the face hugger on it and stuff. I think they purposely made it more apparent that there was a face hugger there so that the audience knew what was going on. Because you never see it with the face hugger on it. So I think they're like, oh, let's just make it, like, obvious that, okay, this dog had this thing. It's gonna. [00:23:24] Speaker C: And I prefer baby over redundant dialogue. So I think that was a good touch myself. [00:23:29] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it was fine. It was fine. [00:23:31] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:23:31] Speaker A: The dog can't be like, maybe they could have. It's space. It's the future. The dog. [00:23:38] Speaker C: Predator. They got some pretty gross subtitles, so maybe they could put dog subtitles with this one. [00:23:44] Speaker B: That's fair. [00:23:46] Speaker A: But you're right, it could have been just because it was this crazy queen hugger. [00:23:50] Speaker C: I don't know. [00:23:51] Speaker A: Maybe it's more. More forceful. [00:23:55] Speaker B: A question I had for you guys because you did talk about the fact that they kill Hicks and Newt off screen. I didn't watch the audio. Watch the audio. I didn't hear the audio play, so I don't know anything about that one. So we're going to ignore that for now. But Newt is killed off screen. This movie is seven. Six years after Alien 2. Aliens, right? 86 to 92, something like that. [00:24:15] Speaker C: Yeah, sounds about right. [00:24:17] Speaker B: Do you think that they killed her off simply because the actress who played her like, 10 to 16 is a lot of developmental years. There's no good explanation for why a kid in cryo would grow that much. Do you think they did it for that reason? And if that is the reason, would it have worked for you if they just recast her and then maybe killed Newt during the movie? So you actually get the emotional heartbreak of that as opposed to just she wakes up and she's dead, and then you have to go through this horrendous autopsy scene. [00:24:43] Speaker A: Brian, what are your thoughts? [00:24:45] Speaker C: I'm not big on child actors. She can die in the cryo casket. [00:24:49] Speaker A: I was like, the one redeeming factor is Brian's gonna be a okay with new just. [00:24:54] Speaker C: But right off the git, if I gotta get. If it's. If it's Hicks, Bishop, and Newt or nobody, I'll take a recasting of Newt because I want. I wanted. And I could have dealt with a little bit more Bishop, although Bishop was destroyed Anyway, what we got of Bishop in this movie was fine, but I definitely wanted more of Hicks and the fact that they killed him off. And Ripley, seriously, she just looks like she's hung over and she kind of just deals with it. And then she wants to have sex with the doctor. And it was like. Like it didn't fit her character at all. [00:25:28] Speaker B: Sex with the doctor was real weird for me. Not like Charles Dance is a good enough looking dude, don't get me wrong. And we don't know much about Ripley. Like, maybe she is horny as hell, but, like, it didn't feel like anything we've seen from her in the past two movies. [00:25:40] Speaker A: Right. [00:25:40] Speaker B: It felt like she was gonna trick him in some way. Like, she was like, oh, well, she. [00:25:43] Speaker C: Was trying to move him away from the line of questioning. But I'm kind of like, is that really your ghost? If that's a. If I could trick my wife into that, I'll ask her all kinds of questions, but that doesn't really work like that. So it was just, like, too much. It was just weird. And the fact that she should be grieving over what? They basically made her a daughter replace character, and she lost her again. And she was like, oh, let's just rip her chest open and then I'll get over this. [00:26:12] Speaker B: Why do you think she was so reluctant to tell Charles Dance and the other people about aliens? Like, we. We've established that aliens life form does exist in this universe. I don't think they're gonna look at, like, she's totally crazy. [00:26:24] Speaker C: I. I think they would because she explained. [00:26:26] Speaker A: Did you see the second movie? [00:26:27] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, she explained it to the marines and they brushed her off. So I think she was just like, I'm just gonna keep this one close to my chest. Or in my chest as it may be. [00:26:35] Speaker A: Hey, nice, nice. [00:26:37] Speaker C: Very nice. [00:26:38] Speaker B: Speaking of which, I did want to touch on that you guys were kind of going back and forth the alien queen thing. My assumption was almost like it was waiting for all the threats to disappear. Like the. Like the alien queen could come out at any time. And then when its life was in danger, it was like, oh, I need to get out of here. And that's why when she's falling. [00:27:00] Speaker A: Because. [00:27:00] Speaker B: Like the timing on that makes sense. Sense versus just, oh, cool, we're gonna have one last death before we have the last death kind of a thing, right? [00:27:07] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:27:07] Speaker B: Which also, by the way, her falling to lava look stupid. I'm gonna keep hammering on this. This movie looks awful. I don't care what you say. [00:27:13] Speaker A: Okay, okay, well here. [00:27:14] Speaker B: The movie looked bad. [00:27:15] Speaker A: Okay, tell me this though. [00:27:18] Speaker B: Okay. [00:27:18] Speaker A: The Bishop Android looked fantastic. [00:27:22] Speaker B: I'll give you that. Fantastic. And I'll give you like the alien, like running across the screen from the alien's perspective was a cool effect. I really liked that. Like there's things I like movie. [00:27:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:27:32] Speaker B: But a lot of the CG was so well or whatever. A lot of the special effects superimposed. [00:27:38] Speaker C: When Dan, when you see from the aliens perspective, I want you to remember that for upcoming films. That's all I'm gonna say. Okay, I don't want to spoil anything for you, but just remember that view for upcoming films. [00:27:49] Speaker A: They use that view in the video games as well too, right? [00:27:52] Speaker B: Yeah, video game I played, it was like Predator versus Alien versus Space Marine. I don't think think that's what it was called. But it honestly might have been Colonial Marines. [00:27:59] Speaker C: Could have been AVP. AVP 2. There's so many. [00:28:01] Speaker A: There's so many games. [00:28:02] Speaker B: When you played as the aliens, you moved exactly like that. Like you go 360 on the walls. And I found it actually kind of hard to control at first because you just. [00:28:08] Speaker C: Was that AVP on the Jaguar, I bet that was it. [00:28:11] Speaker B: Oh, no, it wasn't that old. By far. It was. [00:28:12] Speaker C: Oh, because AVP on the Jaguar, you can run up on the same. But no, the look of the alien when it comes out of the lead works and it's covered in hot lead and they spray it with water. I thought that looked really cool. [00:28:23] Speaker B: And bring it with water and exploding everywhere. Really bothered Me, I was like, well. [00:28:27] Speaker C: They tried to give us a little bit of foreshadowing with that hot bucket. Remember that? That quick glimpse of the hot bucket? That was that they sprayed the water on it and the bucket popped and cracked. [00:28:36] Speaker A: Yeah, the cold water forces the contraction overly fast, and it. [00:28:41] Speaker B: So why didn't they all die from acid flying everywhere? [00:28:45] Speaker A: Well, because. [00:28:45] Speaker C: I don't know. [00:28:48] Speaker A: It imploded. [00:28:50] Speaker B: It imploded. Okay. Sure. Those body parts went real far from an implosion. [00:28:54] Speaker A: Yeah, that's fair. [00:28:55] Speaker B: Oh, man. No, that. I should have just died from the lead. I would have been okay with that. Okay, what, like final jump scare. [00:29:03] Speaker C: So throughout the. The movies, we've seen different androids. We've never seen the same Android twice. Except we did see, you know, the parts of Bishop from Aliens in this movie. But at the end of this movie, we see Bishop. Somebody who looks like Bishop. What do you guys think was going on there? [00:29:27] Speaker A: Yeah, I. In the Credits, it's called Bishop 2. [00:29:30] Speaker B: Yeah. I hated. Seemed like a poor decision for a couple of reasons. Like, okay, it's a familiar face. But you also, if you've got the psych profile on this person, she hates androids. Why would you bring somebody that's so clearly an Android? They're like, oh, no, it's not an Android. I'm the original one. [00:29:48] Speaker A: Like, is it? [00:29:49] Speaker B: That's my question. [00:29:50] Speaker A: Let me ask you, Dan. Is it an Android or is it a human? [00:29:54] Speaker B: If I had to bet, it's an Android, and I think the credits agree with me. [00:29:58] Speaker C: Okay, Brian, Brian. It is an Android. Because if you see, they hit him in the back of the head with like, a fire extinguisher, and it knocks his ear loose. And you can see that he is an Android. [00:30:09] Speaker A: Right. But there's no milk. There's blood. [00:30:12] Speaker C: There's blood. I thought I could have swore I saw milk when I. On the version that I saw definitely no milk. Well, his ear was hanging off, and he didn't offended by that. What's going on there? [00:30:23] Speaker A: I know. And if you watch assembly cut, it is. There's more. It shows more of blood. [00:30:30] Speaker C: Really? [00:30:30] Speaker A: And in the assembly cut, he yells, I'm not a droid. [00:30:35] Speaker B: Well, sure, he yells it in this one too, but I don't know. [00:30:38] Speaker A: Well, fair. [00:30:39] Speaker B: But he's like. He says, like, oh, I'm not. I think he says, I'm not an Android. I'm. I. The person who made Bishop or something like that. [00:30:46] Speaker C: Yeah. The person it was modeled after. [00:30:48] Speaker B: Yeah. It just seemed like a bad decision on their Part. Regardless, I get you want to have a friendly face, but, like, maybe not. Like, here's the face of somebody who you just watched die and you hate androids. And here, like, it just. It seemed the entire. [00:31:03] Speaker A: Yeah, but who else could they have brought for, though? Who could they brought if they're trying to bring a friendly face? That's the only friendly face they know of for Ripley, because everybody else in her life is doomed and dead by now. [00:31:16] Speaker B: I. No, okay. You're. You're ash. [00:31:18] Speaker C: You're not, like, I'm sorry for trying. [00:31:21] Speaker A: To kill you in the first movie. Not a friendly face. At least Bishop was a friendly Android. [00:31:27] Speaker C: Yeah, fair. [00:31:28] Speaker B: I don't. [00:31:28] Speaker C: I thought it was terrible writing on that. [00:31:30] Speaker A: That whole sequence seemed like a cheap. [00:31:32] Speaker B: Way to get Bishop back in. [00:31:34] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. I felt like maybe he had it in his contract that he needed to be written into so many scenes or something. [00:31:40] Speaker B: And they're like, oh, we'll bring it. [00:31:41] Speaker C: Back in in the end. [00:31:42] Speaker B: I guess I'll do the wasted robot scene if I can also have my face on screen for real. [00:31:47] Speaker A: Yeah, I. I mean, I. I don't disagree. I think it's bad writing, ultimately, but it does make you question the company or makes Ripley question. We're not questioning the company at all. We know they're horrible, but they're like, can Ripley trust this time? Or it is her life meant for one purpose and one purpose only, and that's doing everything in her power to rid society of getting an alien in this company's hands. [00:32:22] Speaker B: It almost feels like Waylon Yutani is the antagonist of this series more so than 100. [00:32:28] Speaker A: It is 100. It is. [00:32:29] Speaker B: So, like, I don't know why they. Like, I don't know it. It's perspective, why they're trying to do what they're trying to do. But from the audience perspective, like, you got to give me an actual legit. Like, if Bishop had been in the movie for half an hour and had, like, come around, and we'd be like, oh, okay. No, he is a good guy. Maybe, but just have him just show up for, like, a scene. Just felt cheap and stupid. Also, the scientists look ridiculous. [00:32:54] Speaker A: Like, yeah, they look awful. The future? [00:32:57] Speaker B: No. [00:32:59] Speaker C: Between getting caught in a rainstorm on their way to a rave. That's. I just don't understand the look. It was terrible. [00:33:07] Speaker A: That was how in the future, it's fashion and function come together in the perfect harmony. [00:33:12] Speaker B: You know how the Fallout series is like, the 1950s version of the future? Those guys were like, the 1990s version of the future. Like, well, there you go. The future is going to look like. [00:33:23] Speaker C: Jubilee did their costumes. [00:33:24] Speaker B: Yes. [00:33:25] Speaker A: It was made in the 90s. [00:33:26] Speaker B: What do you expect? Oh, better than that. Oh, man. I thought, you know what? We didn't talk about this very much. The subtle changes they did in Aliens with Paul Reiser's suit when you first see him, but it looks different enough. That's how you do the future. [00:33:46] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:33:47] Speaker A: Yes, subtlety. Subtlety. [00:33:48] Speaker B: This. They went to the dollar store and picked up some raincoats. Like, yeah, good enough. Whatever. Yeah, I can rag on that scene for longer, but you get the point. [00:33:56] Speaker A: So talking about Bishop, I want to just say there is also fan theories out there that the OG Bishop in Aliens is the one who planted the egg before they left and that he was always working for the company in that manner. What do you guys think of that? [00:34:16] Speaker C: That would be better than what we got. That makes more sense than this. This drivel for me, it's. It's how we get into the movie and how the movie ends is really the worst two parts of the film for me. And it just kind of sets a bad tone for everything in between. I don't mind the pieces and the ideas that they were trying to go for. They were trying to get back to that scary, you know, isolation version of the. The first one where it's dark and it's, you know, you don't have any way to defend yourself and there's threats everywhere and everything is cold and. And just really, really scary feel to it. I don't mind that they tried for that, but how they got there was terribly pathetic writing. And how they ended it just offended me. That's my biggest problem with this film, I think. [00:35:06] Speaker A: Can I. [00:35:07] Speaker C: Can you. [00:35:07] Speaker A: Sorry, can you clarify how they ended it? Like, what specifically about the ending? Because there's like a lot going on in the end. [00:35:15] Speaker C: Bishop coming in with the company and like, I don't mind her jumping into the flames and killing the queen, I guess, whatever. [00:35:24] Speaker A: But I mean, her story's finished, right? [00:35:26] Speaker C: Like, yeah, her story's finished and should have been finished in this one, unfortunately. It goes on. But. But the way that they finished it just offended me. The same way that they trashed what we gained from Aliens, right in. In these two second long flashes. And Dan, if you were to see the assembly cut, you'd see that they are like 4 second long. They do show those a little bit longer in the assemble cut. Lots to see there. But they. In this brief intro of flashes that don't make much sense. They completely just obliterate everything we achieved in Aliens. And then in the first 15 minutes of the movie, she's over it. And that. That really bothered me so much. [00:36:13] Speaker A: Is she over it or is she, like, giving? [00:36:18] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:36:19] Speaker A: Is she just, like. Is she given up? [00:36:23] Speaker C: If she's given up, then why does she care so much to extinguish the alien? Like, you'd think that she would have given up and been like, well, screw this species. I mean, humans, like, we're just gonna let this go. I don't know. It's just. It just. None of the writing felt good about this. I liked the idea that they were going for. They didn't pull it off in the way that they got through it. [00:36:47] Speaker A: And I think that goes back again. It goes Back to square one of 30 scripts and different edited versions all over the place. [00:36:55] Speaker C: And some of those scripts that they wanted to try had a lot of potential, a lot of neat things. And we see a lot of books, other movies that are yet to come, that get their inspiration from those scripts that never saw the light of day. And we see some other good material that should have been used, not this script. [00:37:17] Speaker B: Speaking of the ending, and just out of curiosity, I don't necessarily need an answer from this. Maybe you guys will, because you guys are way more in depth on this series than I am. At the end of the movie, they shoot one of the prisoners in the leg. It doesn't matter. They shoot one of them in the leg. Ripley falls to her death. And then you see them exiting the planet and they're bringing the prisoners with them. [00:37:40] Speaker A: Worse, he's the only one who survives. [00:37:42] Speaker B: Reason for bringing the prisoners back, because there's just going to be more witnesses. They're going to have to explain this situation to. Wouldn't it have been easier for whaling Utani just to shoot them, leave them there, move on with their lives, something. Yeah. Unless they think possibly the survivors have alien DNA or something. Like maybe the aliens got impregnated or the people got impregnated or something that would be. [00:38:01] Speaker C: Otherwise. [00:38:01] Speaker B: It doesn't make any sense from the. The company's perspective. [00:38:04] Speaker C: Take any survivors in case they happen to be infected with the alien, because they don't quite understand it. So I don't have a problem with that. My problem was why did 86 club him over the head with the extinguisher at the end? They've all got guns. You don't even need to hit them. Like, why did he. Why did he hit him? And then he Shot. He's like, oh, I want to get home to my family. Ah, screw it. Let's just hit this guy in the head and hope his friends don't shoot me down. [00:38:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:30] Speaker B: Gonna shoot Ripley or something. Like, weren't. Weren't they aiming guns? And he shot. [00:38:33] Speaker C: He hit the one guy who didn't have a gun. [00:38:36] Speaker A: Morse got hit in the leg. And then this guy, 86, stood up and was like, 85. 85, whatever. One point of IQ is not gonna make much a difference. [00:38:44] Speaker C: Yeah, it might matter later. [00:38:45] Speaker B: There's a quiz. [00:38:49] Speaker C: 85 was the character. [00:38:53] Speaker A: I. I didn't hate that he did it. He was, like, going back and forth with Ripley throughout the movie of like, why don't you trust the company, though? They're coming to help us. And then I think he was like, you know what? I made the wrong call. I should have trusted Ripley. This is my one chance to make it up to her. And just obviously knowing that this is the end for him. But he tried, and I think that was his story arc. How small whatever it was. [00:39:20] Speaker C: Yeah, well, I think it was as stupid as his iq and he shouldn't have done it. He should have just sat back knowing, this isn't going to change a single thing I'm just going to die doing. [00:39:28] Speaker A: Right. [00:39:28] Speaker C: But what gesture would. [00:39:30] Speaker A: Would he have been able to get back home with this company after what he's learned? [00:39:35] Speaker C: That's true. That's true. Maybe he thinks that he's screwed no matter what, so maybe he's fighting his way out. [00:39:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:41] Speaker B: I can't imagine a world where any of those guys make it home. [00:39:44] Speaker A: Yeah. So. Yeah. So the character Morse, I think there's, like, one line and there might be more in the assembly cut. And I'm blurring it now because I watched this all so recently. He's like, the one character who says, I'm gonna live forever. And when they're talking about religion and whatnot and this. This little posse of weird ex prisoner worker guys, and he's the one guy who's like, I'm gonna live forever. And so I think that is the sole reason that he is the only one who survives out of this planet. [00:40:21] Speaker C: Yeah. Because Dylan makes the comment, oh, that's right. You're the guy who made a deal with God to live forever. There it is, though. [00:40:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:27] Speaker C: And. And so I guess it worked. Some prayers do get answered. [00:40:31] Speaker A: So he's, like, the only person who makes it off. So, again, is that good writing? Obviously not, because nobody picked up on it, and everybody's like, this guy's life is still screwed, so what does it matter? But I think that's the through line that is supposed to come through. [00:40:46] Speaker C: I, I know a lot of people that didn't even understand that these were the custodians of a prison, of a penal colony that was shut down. [00:40:54] Speaker B: Right. [00:40:55] Speaker C: They're like, why is this place so big for these, like, 30 guys or whatever? And I'm like, it's because they're just, they're keeping the lights on. It's not. It's an old prison that's shut down. And like, they didn't even explain that very well for the common viewer. [00:41:08] Speaker B: I, I feel I, I am the common viewer in this one, apparently. And I knew that this was like a prison plant that had like 500 people in it and, like, all but 25 of them left. Like, that was explained in this version of it well enough that I'm like, okay, makes sense now. What I didn't understand, it sounds like nobody ever visits this planet. Like, basically whing Utani is like, cool, you're all dead. Bye. And left. Where are they getting their food from? How do they. Why do they have a dog? Where's that? [00:41:32] Speaker C: Comes in every month or so. [00:41:33] Speaker A: Yeah, I think they mention it whatsoever. [00:41:36] Speaker B: Because I'm like, why are they even running the plant still? Like, what are they, what are they creating at this that anybody is coming to get? Because it sounds like whale. And Utah is like, cool, we're closing the shop. And they're like, no, we're sticking around. They're like, okay, bye, enjoy, Good luck. It didn't sound to me like they were having shipments brought in or. [00:41:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:41:52] Speaker B: As far as taken away. [00:41:53] Speaker A: I do know that they say the. Whatever, the handler, the one prison guard guy is like, we get shipments every month, so nobody's going to come for a while to get Ripley. And then I assume that same group that comes picks up whatever they're mining there, like whatever they're doing now. Because they're kind of a refinery now at this point. Right? And that's it. And that's. They just live their life like this. And they've chosen that over trying to go back to society because they have found their brotherhood and kind of weird semi religious beliefs here. [00:42:29] Speaker B: Well, it's kind of the Shawshank thing. Like, once you spend so much time behind bars, you don't know how to live in society. I want to get back to this. [00:42:34] Speaker C: I mentioned at the very beginning, don't, don't mention Shawshank. Shawshank's one of the best films ever made. [00:42:40] Speaker A: We don't. [00:42:41] Speaker C: We are going to defile Shawshank by bringing it into this, okay? This travesty of a film relating shawshank to Alien 3. My God, man. [00:42:52] Speaker B: I didn't relate the movie qualities. I said it's a similar concept. [00:42:56] Speaker A: I was also going to say Shawshank. I was going to bring Shawshank into this, but in a different. For a different reason. Anyway, go back to what you wanted to say, Dan. [00:43:05] Speaker B: I want to touch on the actual setting of this movie in general. The prison planet. I thought. I thought it was really poorly used. Like, they've got these hardened criminals who can't exist in society. And other than them telling me how badass and scary they are constantly and like, oh, you don't want to be my friend? Why? What. What have you done? What are you. Why. Why should I be afraid of you? They have the one scene where they assault Ripley, and obviously that could go down a lot worse. [00:43:32] Speaker A: That's what I was going to say. They Shaw shanked Ripley. That's what I was going to use it. [00:43:36] Speaker B: Not quite, but. Yeah, yeah, but it would have been a much more interesting. Okay, so my problem is the prisoners aren't scary because you could have gone a direction where Ripley's in this really tough situation where almost like, recent conversations with, like, would you rather ran into a man or a bear in the woods? Would you rather be stuck with an alien or with these prisoners? And at no point did she ever seem afraid of the prisoner. She's walking around constantly, just being like, what? [00:44:04] Speaker C: Literally. Literally comes into the cafeteria and intentionally sits down next to them knowing that she's not welcome. She's like, f. You guys. I'm sitting at this table because I've been through some stuff that's way worse than you. And right then they took away all the scariness of her being surrounded by rapists and murderers. And it was like, why did you do that? Why? You're supposed to make these guys real scary to be around at all times so that there's that much more drama and intensity. [00:44:31] Speaker B: You should have had the inmates almost attacking her in front of. I'm going to call him the warden. Whatever. He was in front of the warden. Like, I don't give a shit about authority. This is fresh meat. This is a woman. I haven't seen a woman in forever. I'm going to go for it. Like, she should be terrified of everything going on, and instead she's like, whatevs, I got this. I Don't give a. And it really just. It didn't work for me. On top of that, if these are murderers and rapists, I don't care if the alien kills them. [00:44:57] Speaker A: All right? [00:44:58] Speaker B: So it kind of works negative for me in both directions because I love the idea of the prison planet because, okay, there's no weapons. You've got one alien going against them. That seems good. But then you kind of ruin it because, like, I. I don't. I'm not afraid of these people, and I don't care if they live or die, whatever. And it's not even like, okay, well, we're gonna kill them in interesting ways. Like in a Predator movie or in previous Alien movies or something like that. They all just kind of like, almost die off screen. Even, like, the alien chases them. And then you just hear, ah. From far away. And you're like, I guess that guy who had no name is dead. I don't know. [00:45:29] Speaker C: It just didn't. [00:45:29] Speaker B: It didn't. Didn't work for me at all. [00:45:33] Speaker C: Will, what did you think about the Transition from Aliens 2 to Alien 3? How we went from a high octane, like, action, war drama kind of film back to what was an attempt at a scary monster movie, hunting these guys down. Do you think that was a terrible decision, or do you think that they just didn't pull off the direction they went? [00:45:53] Speaker A: Personally, I. I didn't like the decision. I don't know if it was Fox's choice or if I feel like, again, I just don't know where to put the blame on this movie because the script is a mess. The studio pressure was a mess. This movie started like, they put. The studio literally put a deadline on this movie's release by releasing a teaser trailer, like, just over a year before the movie was due out. And they put a date in 1992. I have it. I have it written down. Where is it? It's the stupidest. They. [00:46:33] Speaker C: They literally made a deadline. [00:46:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:46:37] Speaker C: For themselves. There's even a quote out there saying, like. Like, we made a deadline, not a movie. It was, like, ridiculous. They were. Their priorities lay. [00:46:44] Speaker A: You can maybe find this trailer, Dan, the trailer, if you haven't seen it. It's the Alien, though. The Alien 3 title comes up and it's zoomed in. If it zooms out slowly, we find out it's an alien egg hatching. And then it zooms out further and the Earth is below it. And during that zoom out, it says, In 1979, we discovered in space, no one can hear you scream in 1992 we will discover on Earth. Everyone can hear you scream. Does that sound like a fun movie? When aliens come to Earth and hell ensues. [00:47:18] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:47:19] Speaker B: Terrible tagline. [00:47:20] Speaker C: Well, we'll see when Alien Earth comes to Hulu in 2025. [00:47:27] Speaker A: But that, that was the, that was the, the trailer. There's no aliens on Earth in this movie. That movie was never made. [00:47:35] Speaker C: It. [00:47:35] Speaker A: It just. It just was a tornado of. From then on, I feel, and maybe. [00:47:41] Speaker B: Before I feel like the theory of this movie, I like, like, like going back to basics of one alien. No weapons. What do you do? In theory, I really like that. Will, I just want to clarify. Are you saying you want to see aliens on Earth? [00:47:57] Speaker A: I would have preferred to see that over this. That's maybe not where I want the series to go, but in this specific case, I would have preferred to see that over what we got. [00:48:10] Speaker B: I. Okay. If the aliens invade en masse, I think they destroy us 100%. One spaceship shows up with one alien, even if it's a queen, I think we're good. We probably lose a city or two, but I think we're okay in the, in the long run. [00:48:28] Speaker C: Well, we're supposed to get a lead female with a small special operations of colonial marines that find out there is an alien presence on Earth. And that is really coming to Hulu in the summer of 2025. [00:48:44] Speaker A: And it's a series. [00:48:45] Speaker B: You take Earth out of that sentence, it sounds like aliens. [00:48:48] Speaker C: I don't know. I'm curious. Like I said, I'm like 35 minutes into Romulus and I'm enjoying it so far. And I'm. I'm. And they've greenlighted the sequel to Romulus and they've given Ridley Scott the choice if he would like to finish out his David trilogy. So I think that this, this franchise still has legs and I think we're going to see some additions. And I'm very curious if they can pull off Alien Earth if the series is going to be any good. If they do it more of like a conspiracy thing and it's more about the corporations and stuff like that. And there just happens to be this alien. And sometimes we get a sequence where somebody dies. I think that could probably be pretty good if they have some really witty dialogue and good character building and stuff like that. But if it's just this apocalypse on Earth kind of thing and they. And it's. It's like a walking dead, but it's aliens, it could get old and tired real fast, I think. [00:49:47] Speaker A: Yeah, I feel Like, I'm gonna come in higher than you guys on this one. [00:49:51] Speaker C: I know you're gonna come in higher than me. [00:49:53] Speaker B: You always do. That's not. [00:49:56] Speaker A: That's. [00:49:57] Speaker B: I don't know, man. You were not Alien, and you came in with a very high score. [00:50:02] Speaker A: You can check back on some other movies. Yeah. Let me know if I've ever, ever not come in the lowest, because I'm pretty sure I have. [00:50:12] Speaker B: Nope, nope. [00:50:15] Speaker C: Nope. [00:50:17] Speaker B: Oh, Highlander. Highlander. You were the lowest score. [00:50:19] Speaker A: Thank you. Thank you for bringing Highlander into this recording. [00:50:26] Speaker B: In this movie. [00:50:27] Speaker A: Oh. Anyway. Anyway, I don't mind the concept of this movie. I like elements of it. I. I didn't. I didn't. I understood why the superimposed aliens looked horrible. I liked all the other effects in this movie, and I also commend them for not trying to CGI the aliens. And because I think the puppetry looks better. It just didn't transfer well and didn't end up looking good. So I commend them for trying. Even though it didn't pan out, the problem is the script was a disaster. David Fincher, I think, is more than qualified to make this movie, but the studio did not allow for it to the point where he could have lost his career. Luckily, I think things worked out for him because others saw potential in him, and he's been just fine. But he wouldn't even come back to do an assembly cut. He just said, let some other producer do it. And so he has not touched this thing. So I like that this movie brought in the xenomorph gene melding with the. The. Whoever the host is. I think that's really cool, and I think that's, like, the biggest. Biggest takeaway from this. Aside from that, I also enjoy that it closes Ripley's story, and it closes in a way that is, like, super dark, which is, like, a choice whether you like it or not. That's fine. They literally kill off every good thing that has ever happened to Ripley since she started this Alien quest in the first five minutes. And then it just gets bleaker from there. From almost getting Shawshanked to finding out she's impregnated with an alien, to losing any. Any hopeful character around her in this film. Like, it's just darkness stacked on darkness stacked on darkness. And it makes sense why she does what she does and sacrifices herself in the end of this movie. So I didn't. I didn't hate it. I feel like maybe it could have been handled a lot better, but I didn't hate It. So I think, yeah, there's a lot. I'm trying to say as many good things about this as possible because the other two are just gonna rag on this thing so hard. I just feel there are redeeming qualities to this that make this at the time a close out to a trilogy. Is it obviously the worst of the trilogy? 100%. 100%. Is that going to be a right rating? Absolutely not. 100%. My rating for this. Between the genre, which is muddled, the acting which is not as good as the first two iterations, I don't dislike the acting. I feel like the acting in this is fine. But unfortunately, you can only. Good acting can only raise the rank of a movie so much with a horrible script and the writing in this is horrible. And I also feel like David Fitcher, Fincher did a great job with what he had to work with and what he was working against. And that's the studio. Does it hold up a little bit better if you watch the assembly cut, but not great either. So anyway, at the end of the day, I gave this potentially an optimistic 72 out of 100. It's not a bad movie. It's just not good compared to almost two perfect movies before it. So it's super hard to look at it in a neutral light. [00:54:28] Speaker C: I feel it is a bad movie. I gave it a6.2 and I'm glad to be done with it. No, sorry. I did give it a 62. That is my rating. I, I agree with a lot of what Will said. I think I, I'm not as excited about Fincher's work with it. I, I, some of the, I guess because maybe I saw too many behind the scenes stuff and I kind of thought he was kind of acting like a baby about it. Maybe that was just how he was portrayed in some of this footage that I saw. I don't think Fincher's a bad director by any means. I think he got saddled with a bad movie. I think what he should have done is learned early on that this was going to be a disaster and bowed out before he even started. I think maybe that would have ruined his career. I don't know. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna rake him over the coals for this one. He's. He's fine. But he did have everything going against him in this. I thought the plot was absolutely terrible. It was just a horrible, horrible, horrible plot. How they got this done. We will see in future iterations how you can bring the xenomorph back to the screen without having to do this. Although they don't do it well in Resurrection, I'm just going to warn you there even worse the next time. But aside from, aside from the next edition, they show us some other stuff of ways you can bring the alien back to the big screen. And it's kind of cool. I thought the acting was pretty good in this. But yeah, you don't get good acting when you cut so many good lines out of the script and rewrite in so many terrible lines into the script. It was just a horrible thing at this. Like so many bad things happen. And maybe Fincher didn't have the ability to write the ship, maybe he didn't have a power or whatever. But at some point the director has to just say, enough is enough. You can't do this to my film. And it never, that was never allowed to happen. And it just kept getting worse and worse. The effects were fine other than the green screen image shining off of the puppetry just looked terrible. If I could have that cleaned up, it would have improved the effects a lot more for me. They weren't super amazing, I think coming. I enjoyed the practical effects in two. In three they tried some new stuff and just hits and misses. But I don't think this one holds up very well, especially when you compare it to the first two. Especially when you compare it to later releases coming out. Did I have a fun time watching this? No, it was very depressing. It was very dark. Like, like Will said it was dark on dark. So this one just. I think though, I do think this was a bad movie. I, it was bad in all the ways where you can't even like enjoy it for it being bad. It was, it was frustrating to watch. I felt insulted by it because coming off of Aliens, which is one of my favorite all time movies and coming to this and how they just trashed everything. I mean, even James Cameron said that this movie was like a slap in the face. He was insulted by it, you know, And I, I just, I got to agree with him. I didn't like this. And, and I think so many people in this movie should have said no, this is, this is not right. Let's just do something different. So I didn't like it. [00:57:48] Speaker A: I gave it a 62 or some people should have said yes, like James Cameron to directing the third movie. [00:57:56] Speaker C: Maybe, maybe if somebody who had some weight and end up proving themselves like James Cameron had taken over the reins of this, maybe he could have said no, this is the script. We're going with, no, we're not making these changes. And everybody like, oh, you know, he did, like, make a gazillion dollars off the last one, so I guess we'll go with this guy. [00:58:12] Speaker A: This being David Fincher's first feature film was absolutely. [00:58:16] Speaker C: Was this Fincher's first feature film? [00:58:18] Speaker A: Yes, yes. [00:58:19] Speaker B: A lot of music videos. This is his first actual movie, and. [00:58:22] Speaker A: So that's why he didn't have the pole and the studio ran all over him. [00:58:26] Speaker C: Okay, I'll cut him some slack for it then, I guess. [00:58:28] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. 100. And Ridley Scott was asked, and Ridley wanted to do, obviously, the Prometheus thing, and they said, no, we don't want that. So he was out of the movie. James Cameron was busy with Terminator 2, I believe, so he was out of this movie. So they found Fincher and thought, okay, this guy's got some chops. Let's give him a try. But I think they just run over him. [00:58:51] Speaker C: And again, there's a great director. We've seen some of his later works. He's. He's a great director. [00:58:57] Speaker A: Yeah. All right, Dan, take us home. [00:59:01] Speaker B: Oh, okay. Yeah, I'm with Brian on this one. This is just a bad movie. Sorry. I will talk about the things that I enjoyed about this because that's a much shorter list. I think some of the cinematography was actually kind of interesting. We saw from the aliens perspective for, I believe, the first time in the franchise on this one, which I thought was actually really, really cool. That'll get replicated in, at very least in later video games, if not in later movies. But seeing the. The alien crawl across the ceiling, move around in the way that it did did make it feel more alien. Did make it seem kind of like a bigger throat. We saw it move a little bit faster. Stuff like that. I really did enjoy that. The face hugger attaching to the dog and making a different kind of alien. As I said, I love the concept of that. I love what that opens up for future movies or franchise opportunities. I think that's really, really fun to see the face hugger at the very beginning when it's kind of like hanging out on the ceiling, like, staring at the Rottweiler. Looked incredible. Like, the alien. Practicality effects do look good, except for most of the movie. They don't look like practical alien effects because they are superimposed from where they were and did other things. So I honestly thought most of this movie was CG and looked crappy because of it. So can you say that's practical effects? Sure. Congratulations. But if it looks terrible, it looks terrible regardless of where those effects came from for me. So that didn't really work. The acting was really, really good at this. I can't believe we made it through this entire thing and didn't talk more about Charles Dance. I thought he was really great in this role. I wish we got to see more of him. He died pretty quickly, unfortunately. And being one of the only characters that I connected with outside of Ripley was unfortunate. The practical effects with the Bishop scene, while gross because the milk was just flooding into his eye and that was creeping me out, looked really, really good. So I have to give them props on that. The plot, in theory, is good because last week we were watching Aliens. I was like, they kind of need to back this off to the point where it's just like one versus many can remove their weapons. That's exactly what they did. They did what I wanted them to do. I just don't think they did it properly. I don't think that this was the. I don't think they hit this nail on the head. But I like that they took the swing. I'll give them props on that one. But at the end of the day, it comes down to the enjoyment of this movie. And I just didn't enjoy this movie at all. Like, I just. There was not enough technical aspects that were done well or characters that were done well to bring me into this world, to make me care about these characters. So when people started dying off, I don't care, like, you're random prisoner number 37. You don't mean anything to me. Like, I recognize some of them for the actors, like Pete Postel, Wade, or however you pronounce his name. Cool. But, like, I. I don't care about these characters at all. And if you're gonna have it take place on a prison planet, like I said, you should make the prisoners feel dangerous instead of just keep telling me, hey, I'm really dangerous. It's show, don't tell. Like, show them fighting amongst themselves. Show them not being harmonious and religious. Show them actually being violent, miserable offenders and being miserable towards. Towards Ripley so that they're actually a viable threat or interesting in some way. And instead it was just bored and uninterested with all of the people. They were literally just fodder for the alien. And not even like in Aliens too. We're like, okay, well, this is going to lead to there being more aliens. They're just the aliens just eating them and then moving on, and then there's just less of them. Over time, I. I don't know. There was just nothing in this movie that I'm going to gravitate, gravitate back to. I could see myself watching Alien and Aliens for many, many years to come. I don't feel like I need this chapter, this bookend to the chapter. I feel like if I finished watching it, Aliens. That's fine. That. That is a better ending for Ripley. It's a better ending for the franchise than what this one is. I. I recognize the franchise keeps going. There's like four other movies after this one, and even one that has Ripley in it. But I'm good. I. I was. I was. I was happier with this franchise before I watched this than after I watched this. I gave it a 53, I think it is. Yeah, I gave it 53 because there are competent moments in it, but as a whole, it's not good. [01:03:08] Speaker C: I. I agree with you. They. They took a swing. I liked what they maybe tried to do. They failed. They completely missed. They didn't even nick it. [01:03:18] Speaker B: So that brings my average score down to 74. Brian's down to 80, and Will's down to 83, which means this movie. Let me grab it. Does drop the franchise down from an 88 to a 79, which is still good enough for tops place on our rating so far. We still have a lot of Alien movies left to go. Some are bad, some. Some might be good. We'll see. But right here, right now, Aliens does still hold the top spot. Do you think? I haven't seen Resurrection ever? Or in a very long time after Resurrection, it can maintain that glory, or do you think it's going to drop below the 70 mark, Brian? [01:03:56] Speaker C: Dan, I'm doing the math right now, and it's not looking good. [01:04:01] Speaker B: What do you think, Will? Have you seen Resurrection recently at all? Are you familiar? [01:04:05] Speaker A: Not recently, no. I don't think I've seen it since it came out. [01:04:07] Speaker B: Okay. [01:04:08] Speaker A: I don't think it. The thing is, like, we're gonna have four movies. Two of them are, like, outstanding, and two of them are kind of be rubbish. I don't know if it'll drop under 70, but just because that's how averages work. But it's gonna probably take another dip before it ever climbs. [01:04:25] Speaker B: All right. And that's Our rating of Alien 3. What do you guys think? Were we too harsh on it? Not nearly harsh enough. Let me know down in the comments below. We record the these live over at Twitch tv, the Mongoli show. So if you want to be part of the conversation live while it's happening, head over there and hit the follow button. Or if you enjoyed this video, hit the like button and hit subscribe. So you see more of these videos in the future as they come out. Until next time, I hope you're safe. I hope you're well. You have a good night.