Ep 89 - Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom (1984)

[00:00:01] Speaker A: Indiana Jones and the temple of doom. 1984 crash landing into a country filled with human sacrifice, enslavement, fire and brimstone. It's a rocky start for Indiana Jones, who is on the search for fortune and glory. [00:00:25] Speaker B: Completely overrated. [00:00:27] Speaker C: Hello everybody and welcome back to our Rating the show where I get together with two of my buddies, we take a movie franchise, break it down by individual movie, give it a score and throw it back up on the board. If you're watching this at Twitch tv, make sure you hit the follow button. If you're watching it on YouTube, hit like and subscribe. And if you're listening to the podcast, make sure you leave a five star review. It helps out quite a bit. I'm joined this week, as always, by Brian and Will. Brian, how you doing this week? [00:00:49] Speaker B: I'm doing great, Dan, how are you? [00:00:51] Speaker C: Excellent. I'm doing well as Elsa. We've been doing a lot of home renovations and stuff, so I'm actually pretty tired, but. But we're getting ready to put our house on the market and it's looking good. A lot of the houses in the area are selling for kind of what we want to sell our house for, so I'm pretty excited about that. We're hoping to get it on the market in the next week or so. So it's been really busy. I've missed a lot of streams, individual streams, which is kind of unfortunate, but it's temporary and it'll be good in the long run for me and my family. So it is what it is. Will, how are you doing this week? [00:01:18] Speaker A: I'm doing great this week. I'm excited to get back to the Indiana Jones franchise and closer to the ones I haven't seen yet. [00:01:26] Speaker C: Very true, very true. We took a week off last week to do our Patreon paper. Talked about American History X. You can check that out over at YouTube. Dot I don't know. You can check it on YouTube link down below. I ask this every week. I'm sure I know the answer to this one. Is this your first time watching Temple of Doom? [00:01:44] Speaker B: Not my first time. Not by a long shot. [00:01:46] Speaker A: Seen it many a times. [00:01:48] Speaker C: Yeah. So last week we were talking about Rage, or two weeks ago we were talking about Rage of the last arc and I'd mentioned. I don't remember watching that for the first time. It was just part of my DNA. It's just always been a part of who I was. This one I wasn't allowed to watch for a while. I still don't necessarily remember the first time that I saw it. But I can remember it being on in the house in rooms I wasn't allowed to go into because this one is significantly gorier and darker than the last one. Not only stuff that happens, but even in like Indiana's character and like where this goes. Were you guys. Do you remember something similar to that or were you guys just grew up with this one? [00:02:26] Speaker B: For me, there's only one scene in this film that really stands out to me as being very, very gruesome. And it sets kind of the tone for the latter half of the film. But that was just the one piece and otherwise it's pretty similar to me, in my opinion, as the first one. The first one having some pretty gory scenes as well. I just think that this one, and if it were, it's the heart ripping out scene, you know, when they die and the heart starts on fire and stuff, it's pretty gory, pretty graphic. And that was the one scene that is a step above what we've seen previously. But otherwise I think it's on the same par as the first movie. [00:03:05] Speaker A: Yeah, I. I don't 100 agree with that. I do think just the tones in general in this one are darker. There's child enslavement and they're trying to take over the world. [00:03:16] Speaker B: It's. [00:03:17] Speaker A: It's very. There's voodoo dolls there. Indiana Jones himself is like brainwashed and is like about to destroy the people he loves in quotation marks. So I think it is darker overall in tone. But I do agree, like, the violence isn't super dramatically increased in this one. We. We didn't get any melting faces in this one like we did the first one. So I think it's on par in that way. [00:03:42] Speaker B: Yeah, I just kind of figured like, like Nazism versus child slave labor was kind of on an even keel for me, I guess maybe. I don't know, maybe I just hate children or something. So. [00:03:54] Speaker A: Those Nazis were so tame. They were so gentle. [00:03:56] Speaker B: Yeah, they were pretty tame. Yeah, they were. [00:03:59] Speaker C: The first one were kind of like just a stand in anybody army, you know what I mean? Like, they're Nazis for the sake of you knowing who they are. Whereas labor is a little bit like you actually see it. You actually see them like whipping the kids a little bit. Although you're not wrong. The viol is pretty big in the first one too. You have the. The airplane scene where it's cutting the guy up. Not that you see it, but you know what's happening, right? [00:04:20] Speaker B: And you know, face melting is. Is Pretty intense. So I just think that the sequence of this. I don't know who the guy is or why he was chosen to go in the cage and have his heart ripped out and all that stuff. I don't know what that guy did. I guess he cheated on his taxes or something. Anyway, that sequence when they're lowering him down and he's screaming and his dismembered heart is starting on fire because he's melting in the pit of flames, that was pretty intense. Even this watch through, I was like, wow, that's horrific. And so that was just the thing that, that pushed this movie above for me. Otherwise they do do a. They. They do a lot of disgusting things and gross out stuff with bugs, with meals, with all kinds of stuff. And honestly, some of those gags kind of got a little bit old in this one. [00:05:08] Speaker C: Yeah, for sure. Like the, the scene where they're all eating like the monkey brains and the live snakes and stuff like that different kind of gruesome. Like it's more supposed to be like a silly gruesome, but it is still pretty nasty. [00:05:20] Speaker B: What I didn't like is that they were having a very serious conversation. Indy and the counselor, whatever the guy running the Taj Mahal there. Yeah, yeah, whatever his name was, they were having a very serious conversation. Almost like a chess match of wits as they're talking about things and smack subtle undertones and whatnot. Meanwhile they're cutting that conversation up with this ridiculous food gags. And I really didn't like that choice. I thought that was kind of just ruined that whole sequence for me. I wanted the seriousness of that. And they, they do that a lot in this movie I thought is that they, they leaned away from the seriousness and tried some of that campy, raunchy stuff and it didn't land as well as the first one for me. [00:06:06] Speaker C: I think a chunk of that is to have the adult tone so you can get what the story is going for and then give the kids something so they're not just watching an exposition dump for five minutes. I'm not going to say that necessarily worked, but I think that's the. What the, the goal is for that scene. [00:06:21] Speaker A: Yeah, to me it reminded me of the, the first movie, which I think did it better, where Indiana Jones was talking about whatever near the middle of the movie. But he has the point Poison date in his hand. And so that is what's keeping the suspense going and keeping you interested in the scene if you're not interested in what they're talking about. Whereas this one the monkey brains and the snakes was just like so out there that it, it kind of took me out of the scene altogether instead of keeping me invested and getting the information I needed to move the plot forward. [00:06:56] Speaker B: Yeah. And also her ridiculous reactions to it, which, yes, as a younger person, I remember that was very funny and everything. But as an adult now and going through it again, I'm. I guess I'm over and maybe I just have seen it too much and too many times back to the same. Well, but it just didn't work as well for me. I thought they, they mastered that near flawlessly in the first one and this one they didn't pull it off as well. [00:07:25] Speaker A: I do want to mention. Oh, go ahead, Dan, please. [00:07:27] Speaker C: I. I was. No, it's just a quick little something that'll let you talk. I feel like most things in this one are similar to the first one, but not done nearly as well. I think that's going to be a theme we're going to run into a lot tonight. And I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but like, for my own personal taste, it's going to be a theme coming up over and over again. Sorry, we'll go ahead. [00:07:45] Speaker A: No, not. Not a problem. We did just mention and talk about a little bit darker, more violent tones in this movie. And this is one. I know I mentioned this way back in the day. If anybody was here or remembers when we talked about Gremlins, which was also released in 1984. Those two movies are what pushed the PG13 to come into play. Steven Spielberg actually suggested himself to the MPAA that a PG13 rating would have helped this movie because a lot of audience members were quite upset at how violent and how dark this movie was in theaters. [00:08:26] Speaker C: Yeah, I actually just looked that up right beforehand. If you'd asked me a week ago what is the first PG13 rated movie, I would have said Temple of Doom, but it wasn't rated TPG 13. It just got the ball rolling on that. It's actually red Dawn. [00:08:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:40] Speaker C: 13 movie. So it is still important in the history in the sense that it got the ball rolling also with Gremlins. But yeah, I would have bet money that this was the first PG13. Like in my brain they're connected for that reason. Not just for the starting it off, but yeah, for sure. [00:08:56] Speaker B: Had they given this an R rating back in the day, I would have accepted that. I think that this is. Without a PG13 to land on this, this could easily fall into an R. It's pretty graphic. It's pretty tough. [00:09:12] Speaker C: I think there's a lot of movies back in the day that without a PG 13, kind of got a PG by default. Like Jaws is rated pg, and you're just like, really? [00:09:21] Speaker B: Okay, yeah. [00:09:22] Speaker C: But I guess it just didn't quite hit the mark for art. And. And without PG13 being there, it's just kind of like, oh, that's. That's interesting. But okay, sure. Why not? Okay. So we talked last week about. Or I. I mentioned last week that I think the opening for Raiders the Lost Ark is maybe one of the best openings to a movie in cinema, or very least in the conversation for it. And we went from that to the opening of this movie, which is a awful song and dance number in a bar in Shanghai. Whatever you want to call it. [00:09:58] Speaker A: It's a club. The Obi Obi Wan. The Obi Wan Club. [00:10:02] Speaker C: Seriously? Oh, I missed that. Okay. [00:10:04] Speaker A: Named. Named after Star wars, obviously. Character there. I don't know if it was a bad number. I think it was well choreographed, but maybe doesn't set the tone for an Indiana Jones movie. [00:10:16] Speaker C: Yeah, I'll definitely give you that. I'll give you that. It wasn't poorly made. I just was really confused watching it going into this movie. Like, how do we go from the archaeological archaeologist badass in the first movie to like this weird scene? And then he comes out and like, I know that Indiana Jones started because Steven Spielberg wanted to make a 007 movie, a James Bond movie, but that's who he feels like for the first little bit of this. He's coming in the white tuxedo and he's bartering with the guy. He's giving away an already an artifact to get a diamond, which feels like the opposite. It almost feels like he should have been giving the diamonds to get the artifact as opposed to reverse. And then at least this, like, I apologize. Horrendous. Like Tom and Jerry scat as they're like, dancing around trying to find, like, the diamond amongst the eyes, the poison. Everything's getting kicked around. I. This was painful for me. I don't know. Did you guys like the opening to this film or that whole Shanghai? [00:11:12] Speaker B: I didn't have as much of a problem with it. I did not like the musical opening because I'm not really into musicals, and this one sure didn't have the backbone for it. Like, they weren't ready to put on a musical into Indiana Jones, and so I didn't like that. But once it got going, the cheesy characters were a little rough. But I kind of had fun with it. You know, the machine gun shooting the big gong as he's running behind. It was kind of cool. It wasn't nearly as cool as being chased by the big boulder through the temple, but it had some flair to it and it was kind of fun. And then you get a car chase scene. You're introduced to Short Round, who's a great character. I'm sure we'll talk more about him. And then it ends with him climbing into that plane and closing the door and you find out it's Laos plane. And that was very interesting. So I liked the intro well enough. Definitely not as good as the original's intro. [00:12:13] Speaker C: Fair. I think a lot of the intro bothers me because it doesn't feel like an Indiana Jones movie and it doesn't feel like Indiana Jones. Like, again, I'm gonna say he feels like James Bond more than Indiana Jones. He's taking a female. He doesn't even like. He's not like working with Willie Scott at this point. Like he doesn't know who she is at all. Yeah, he's just taking a random person hostage. And it's like that doesn't feel like Indiana Jones. Now granted, this takes place before Raiders of the Lost Ark, so maybe he's made some drastic changes in his life in the one year. I don't know. I just. The whole opening scene just feels like a completely different movie. [00:12:49] Speaker A: That's actually what I was going to bring up is that this is the prequel and I felt that this was the character development that we were missing in Raiders of the Last Ark. I think that they did lean into Indiana being more of this James Bond esque character who's kind of more in it for himself at the beginning of the movie. But then by the end of the movie, we get the more Indiana Jones character who cares about artifacts in the museums and helping people and so on and so forth. So I think we actually got more of a. A story or character arc in this film than we did in the last one. Whether it works all the way through is, you know, up for debate, I guess. [00:13:31] Speaker C: Do you feel like he changes who he is in this movie? Like, you see him drastically change from somebody who's like stealing artifacts to sell them for profit to somebody who's taking them for a music. [00:13:42] Speaker A: Well, I, I think at the beginning, well, when he was first designated to find the rock, he was talking about, you know, fortune and glory selling that rock. And by the end he understands why he needs to give that rock back to those people. So I Do feel like there is that learning curve. And I think Short Round is, like, the heart of this movie to kind of bring Indiana Jones into his full form. I just don't know if it's, like, the best storytelling to get there. [00:14:16] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't think his character necessarily evolves or you don't see that evolution in his character, but I see how it should transition by what he goes through. Like you said, he's out for fortune and glory, but then he ends up landing in this village where they desperately need his help, and they think he's the savior fallen from the sky and he's not going to do it. But then he, you know, he kind of witnesses the misuse of the children, or he sees the child that comes back and falls into his arms, and he knows these kids are being abused and the hook's been set and so he's in. And I think that's kind of it. He has a soft spot for kids. And of course, you've got Short Round in the film the whole while, and he clearly has a soft spot for him. So I see that he does make this change in the beginning to help people for the sake of helping people rather than fortune and glory. Just not sure if you see it develop in him as much, because at the end, he's just kind of walking around with Willie and everything's green and everybody's happy and they're kind of hugging, and he whips her with his and brings her in for a kiss. And that was kind of it. Yeah. See, where there wasn't much to that anymore. If he maybe got, like, a phone call from somebody and they're like, hey, did you get the diamond? He's like, no, I'm working on something else now. And you kind of see him, like, leaning away from that or something, but there isn't any of that. So you don't really see his character necessarily change. You just know that he's gone through the motions of changing, if that makes any sense. [00:15:50] Speaker C: I guess so. I, I, I really, I watched this literally last night when they're talking about fortune and glory. I always thought he was kind of, like, saying it tongue in cheek. Like, you guys seem to be putting more stock in the fact that that's what he's doing. And maybe I'm reading the room totally wrong. Maybe you guys are absolutely correct. I always thought he was kind of, like, joking about it. And then Willie is teasing him about how that's what he's going for more so than he's like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna get my f. Fortune and glory out of this. So maybe that. That turn didn't. Didn't hit me quite as much. I can hear what you guys are saying. I understand it, and it makes. It makes some sense. But I've never witnessed the movie with that perspective, so. [00:16:26] Speaker A: Right. [00:16:26] Speaker C: Maybe I'm wrong there, but. [00:16:29] Speaker B: Short Round, right. Great character, or did you hate him? [00:16:34] Speaker C: I think he's fun. I like Kiki Kwan. [00:16:38] Speaker A: Absolutely. I'm. I've always been a big fan of his since this movie. This was his debut film. He actually went tag along with his brother to the audition. His brother was auditioning. He wasn't, but he was giving his brother tips on what to do during the audition. And Spielberg saw that and actually enjoyed Ki Juan and actually hired him out of everybody that auditioned for the role. And now we've enjoyed him for years. He's. He's an amazing actor. I love him. [00:17:09] Speaker B: Yeah. Went on to do Being Goonies, one of my favorite movies. One of the best characters in that film too. [00:17:15] Speaker C: Well, and then he had the resurgent arc 30, 40 years later, whatever it is, with everything everywhere all at once, bringing him back into the spotlight. [00:17:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:24] Speaker C: People are talking about him again. He's in a Marvel television show now because of that. Got him his Oscar. Like, what a weird career trajectory this guy's had. But honestly, I've loved everything I've seen him in. I don't know if he had things in between. It sounds like he kind of had like a dark purity. Wasn't like in little things. He was just in nothing for a long time. [00:17:41] Speaker A: Right. [00:17:42] Speaker C: But, like, as a child actor and as an adult actor, I've really enjoyed the products, the projects that he's chosen and his role in them. So. [00:17:49] Speaker B: Yeah, in this particular film, he did have some rough spots. And. And this is kind of my. My big problem with the film in general. There were a couple of times when he delivered a line and I was like, that wasn't a great delivery. Why didn't they do another take? I know he's got it in him to do that. Right. But that felt a little cheesy, a little fake, a little forced or whatever. And they went with that take. And I. That kind of thing happens to. Throughout this entire film, not just with Short Round, but with everything. It kind of feels like, well, that's good enough. We're gonna go with it. And I keep thinking, no, if you're gonna outdo yourself, it's gotta be perfect. It's gotta be amazing. Because the bar Is so high with the first film. And I just didn't feel like they were satisfied with it. [00:18:40] Speaker C: It. [00:18:41] Speaker B: This movie isn't a cash grab by any means. They did try hard. They swung. I just don't feel like they swung for the fences on it. When I feel like they kind of gave up early in a few scenes when they should have maybe re redid the scene once again or maybe tried something else or maybe not done. CG when they're falling out of the sky or sliding down the mountains. Oh, my God, the CG in this movie looks so terrible. I don't like any of those. It looked really bad. But there's just a lot of times in this film where it didn't quite land. And with short rounds character. He had a couple of lines that I didn't really like. The delivery on pretty niche though. It's not really a big deal. Overall, fantastic character. Fantastic acting by the kid. [00:19:18] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. There's a couple of child performances in this movie in general that were not the strongest. [00:19:24] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Like the prince. [00:19:25] Speaker C: Or the prince specifically. [00:19:27] Speaker B: Terrible. [00:19:30] Speaker C: Like it was the fakest everything. And it's just like, okay, like whatever. He's doing what he's got to do. But it just didn't hit me right. The CG though, the green screen effect that they used over and over and over again. And every single time it just stands out like an absolute sore thumb. Really hurt. Because the practical effects are one of the things that I will praise this movie on. Like the actual temple in the background of your. Of your screen there, Brian, looks really cool. Like, the scenery looks really well done. The first movie, a lot of the scenes, you don't really notice any green screen or anything like that. It looks really good. But there's so many scenes in this one where you're just like, ooh, oh, yeah. I would would have tried that again. And some of them were just like Indiana on a hill. And you're just like, we could have done that. We could have put him on a hill. Like, what are we doing here? Like, why? Why'd we even try this? [00:20:16] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. For as much as, like, they did more practical effects in this that were incredible. Like the heart scene and the burning of the people and even the bodies falling off the broken bridge was like, all really cool. Then they just missed on some of this green, green screen stuff that they nailed in the first one. So it really like discombobulates you a little bit being like, wait, why is this worse? When it's like you should be advancing in every way. But it is what it is. You get what you get and you take it or leave it. [00:20:53] Speaker B: I guess I didn't even like when they edited in the alligators at the bottom of the river that you never see in any other shot except for the close up shot of them turning over. Yeah, yeah. Different col water. They're just turning over with some red and black clothing over and over and over. It's the same thing. Different angles on the same scene. And you can't see a wider shot because it's not filmed in the scene. It looks really bad. It's jarringly just. It's just bad. I would have rather we needed to know that falling was certain death. Right. [00:21:24] Speaker A: Which obviously was. Yeah, that's the thing. [00:21:29] Speaker B: We've seen too many movies where they fall off a cliff and they land in water and they live through it. So I think they put the alligators in there so that you know it's certain death if you fall that the stakes are higher. But I would have rather them just put rocks at the bottom then just get rid of the water. Alligators looked really bad. [00:21:47] Speaker C: Well, and so did the, the cult leader falling. When you're like the camera's following them down, you're just like, oh, oh, guys. Yeah, I. I appreciate that you tried, but you're Spielberg. Like, what are we doing here? Yeah, this is not an indie film. [00:22:01] Speaker B: And that's what I'm saying. A lot of times it's like, why did you half ass this? This wasn't good enough? Why did you accept that that was what you're gonna put into this film? Like, who was watching this in the editing room and going, yeah, that's good enough. Because it's not good enough. [00:22:16] Speaker C: So Brian, sorry, Will, you can probably fact check me on this. You tend to do a bit more research into these things than I do. And again, this has been a busy week for me, so I apologize. My understanding is that Indiana Jones was birthed out of the high that George Lucas and Steven Silvergraw on from things like Close Encounters, Star wars movies like that. They were just like so excited and they're like, I want to do this. Let's do this. Let's whatever. And then this movie kind of came about at a super low point in their lives. I think, correct me if I'm wrong, both men were going through divorces. [00:22:45] Speaker A: One breakup, one a divorce. Yeah. [00:22:47] Speaker C: Okay, appreciate that. And so that's why this. Maybe that's not why, but I've always kind of attributed the darker feeling of this film, the darker subject matter of this film, the fact that the female character has nothing to do but scream the entire time to that. And so, like, maybe there was a certain amount of, like, whatever, it's good enough. I don't care. I just want to go home. I don't know. Maybe I'm 100% wrong on that. But when you look at Raiders and you look at Last Crusade, they feel like they're on a completely different level than this film is. This one always felt like kind of the black sheep of the franchise, despite the fact that I've heard some people say this is their favorite one. Totally reasonable. But it does not feel like it's the same level of effort or same level of storytelling or care was put into this one. Is that just me? Do you guys agree with that or [00:23:37] Speaker A: factually? Yes. I think you're on to something there. Now, George Lucas did intend to make this. Always intended to make this second iteration darker because it worked for. [00:23:49] Speaker B: For Star Wars. [00:23:50] Speaker A: And so he's like, let's do that again. That said, the writer of the first Indiana Jones, which was his name, Lawrence Kasdan, who we all loved the work of in the first movie, actually walked away from this one because he didn't like the script ideas. He didn't like where it was headed. He thought it was too dark. He thought it was too mean. He didn't want to work on that project, so he walked away. And George Lucas brought in a couple other writers he knew to write the script for this one. So I think there's multiple reasons why this one turned out differently. Being the different writers, where the two were mentally in their life because of their breakups. I think that did have some involvement in it. And there's a quote from Spielberg himself saying, I wasn't happy with Temple of Doom at all. It was too dark, too subterranean, and too horrific. There's not an ounce of my own personal feeling in it. [00:24:52] Speaker C: Wow. I couldn't agree with Steven Spielberg more, to be perfectly honest. [00:24:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:57] Speaker A: And then. So he also talked about how there are times in the film where he's like, this is getting too dark. Let's lighten it up. And he explained one of those times was when Indy was about to get hammered by that. The big slave driver guy in the. In the mines. And then the hammer gets tossed, and it cuts to guy getting bonked on the head with it to. You know, that obvious slapstick type of humor was just tossed in to try to lighten it throughout. But I. I do think that the Same care and detail that went into the first one. Didn't go into this one for those many reasons. And then another fun shout out. That guard or whatever was the same guy as the shirtless German guy who he fought at the plane. He's in this movie, too. Same actor. [00:25:48] Speaker C: Really? [00:25:48] Speaker B: Okay. [00:25:49] Speaker A: They put him in both movies. [00:25:50] Speaker B: So instead of getting shots, he gets ground up. Exactly. [00:25:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:25:55] Speaker B: Is he in number three? Is he in number three? Because that would be fantastic. I guess we'll find out next week. [00:26:03] Speaker C: Or just go to IMDb, whatever. [00:26:07] Speaker A: But we know Brian won't go to IMDb, so we'll. [00:26:09] Speaker C: No, no. Next week. [00:26:10] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Research. No way. [00:26:14] Speaker A: Okay. We talked about Short Round. Great character. Let's talk about Willie. [00:26:19] Speaker C: I kind of touched on my thoughts on Willie already. But sure, she. [00:26:23] Speaker B: She accidentally finds her way into this movie and is dragged through it the entire time. She has no reason for being here. No purpose whatsoever other than to be a scream queen. And I. [00:26:36] Speaker A: And a lust interest. I won't say love interest, because. [00:26:39] Speaker B: Yeah, lost interest, for sure. They show her off. And you know what? I did kind of like the tit for tat scenes, like when they're going back and forth from each other's bedrooms. Especially after he realizes there's intruders and he's running through. She's like, I'm right here, Indy. That was kind of funny. I enjoyed the sequence. It was good. And the two people do have a lusty kind of chemistry. You. I don't see them ever dating seriously, but I could see them being attracted to one another in the way that they were in this film. So it sort of worked. But at the same time, she was pretty kind of useless in the film. She was just there for comic relief. [00:27:16] Speaker C: I think at one point she said, you just missed out on what could have been like, the best adventure of your life. I agree with that. I don't think they're dating ever. You know, like the one. The One Night Stand kind of a thing. Her character bothered me, like, in the first movie. You've got the damsel in distress in Karen. I think it is. I apologize. That might be the actress's name. [00:27:36] Speaker A: Marion. [00:27:37] Speaker C: Marion. Thank you. You've got her as kind of the damsel in distress. Indy's always saving her, but she's always got a plan that she's working towards. She's always doing something. Never necessarily works out, but at least she's trying to. Whereas I find that with Willie, she's literally just screaming her. Like, she's literally just screaming at everything. Like, there's an entire scene where at the very beginning, Indy and Short Round are just talking about playing baseball cards, and she's just running around the jungle screaming at stuff, and they're just ignoring her because that's just what she does. And really bothers me. From a. This is the. Literally, I think, the only woman in the entire film. At least you don't know if it's an English dialogue. And we give her literally nothing to do the entire time [00:28:23] Speaker B: where she's running around in the jungle either. And at the end, she throws the snake, thinking it's the. The elephant. It wasn't all that funny. Is pretty misplaced. And. And yes, you know what? You're also onto something there. I didn't notice any female children that were being enslaved. I didn't notice hardly any females at all in the entire rest of the film. It was a little lopsided. [00:28:46] Speaker A: Just the dance number. [00:28:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:49] Speaker C: There's dancers and there's Indian women serving them at the beginning, giving them, like, the vegetables. And like. That's what I mean. Like, there's no. Like, none of the English dialogue that I can remember. It's literally just Willie. [00:29:02] Speaker B: Yeah. So I don't know. That might have been a sign of the times when they filmed this where women were forgotten about. Unfortunately, again, they're both going through breakups. [00:29:10] Speaker C: They're probably. [00:29:12] Speaker B: That's true. I'm not sure that Kate Capshaw is a bad actress by any means. I thought she did a fine job doing what they wanted her to do. I didn't like her character so much. And the. The little. The. There's no usefulness for her character to be there, really. It's just comic relief. And so I didn't like that. But Kate Capshot was still a good actress and did a great job in that role. And it could have been better, and they could have continued casting her. I just think they needed to write in a better character for her to play. [00:29:43] Speaker C: As I will point out, my dislike of the character has nothing to do with her performance per se. It's that she's got nothing to do. [00:29:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:52] Speaker C: Doesn't add to it. [00:29:53] Speaker B: That's me. Yeah, exactly. [00:29:54] Speaker C: She's just. Her character is awful. I have nothing against the actress whatsoever. She did fine. The one scene you mentioned it already where she's like, indiana Jones has been choked out. And he's, like, running into her room, looking around. She's like, I'm right here, Indie. Can't you see me? That was the one that I was like, okay, that's kind of funny. I do kind of enjoy that one interaction. But like, considering that's it for the entire movie, that's just not. [00:30:15] Speaker B: Yeah, it's like Chad says they were, they were rooting for her to be lowered into the fire. [00:30:19] Speaker A: Yeah, I was just happy passed out. So you couldn't hear screaming anymore when she lowered down? No, I agree. I think it was just bad writing. Especially when we've. We came from. Again, we're going to do this. It's the franchise we came from. Marion, who is a self realized character who is strong willed, who has plans and schemes and ways to. And wants to get out of situations, you know, does she always succeed? No, Obviously she still has to be the damsel, unfortunately. But you felt that she was a real person and this character just felt like a stereotype of a damsel in distress. And so, yes, I think that was poor writing. And I understand they probably didn't want to just rewrite another Marion character, which is fine, but they could have written a character that would have been great. Sidebar. The only thing Steven Spielberg got out of this movie, aside from obviously a huge paycheck, he married Kate Capshaw. So. And I think they're still married to this day. [00:31:24] Speaker C: Oh, I did not know that. [00:31:25] Speaker A: Yeah. So there, there's the rebound. [00:31:29] Speaker C: There you go. Good on you. Brian, you mentioned something a second ago that she just kind of stumbles her way into this movie and has no real reason for being there. I think that's one of the things I don't like about this movie is I feel the exact same way about Indiana Jones. Like in the first one and the third one and the fourth one, from what I remember, he's got agency, he's trying to do something, he's intelligently figuring things out. And this movie, it feels like he's just stumbling his way left, right and center, like he's falling into India. [00:31:59] Speaker A: Yeah, he's driving exactly to the situation. [00:32:02] Speaker C: Like the only time we see him do anything remotely intelligent, somebody gives him like a little scrap of paper and he's able to read it and put it together. But then like he stumbles his way into like the, the air chamber, stumbles his way into the falling rock thing. Like it's just. It doesn't feel like Indiana Jones to me. This entire film feels off, like it's just him stumbling around. Whereas in the first and third movie we see him being incredibly intelligent and getting his way. Now, I'm not going to say that luck doesn't play a huge part with this character. And he is very lucky in this film, so there is that. But a lot of his other traits, I just feel like, are missing from this film. [00:32:38] Speaker B: Well, to. To counterpose your. Your thought there. In the first movie, he tries really hard time and time again and does not succeed until the very end of the film. He's constantly fooled, failed, swindled, you know, whatever, but he. He puts his best foot forward time and time again. He just doesn't succeed until the final end of the movie when he, you know, gets the girl and everybody else dies through no actions of his own, by the way, they just opened the sarcophagus and killed themselves. But in this movie, he is constantly moving forward. But most of the time it's kind of random. Like, he's literally dropped into it and they believe he's their savior and he doesn't want any part of it until the kid falls into his arms and he chooses to go forward. And then, like you said, he finds a scrap of paper. He finds the tunnel and pushes it open, and he moves through to the spike chamber that starts squishing him. Now, of course, he doesn't get himself out of that. That's Willie that gets him out of it after a bunch of screaming and annoying chatter. That was just a waste of my time to watch. But Indy continues to go forward and chooses to push through this movie, so I'm okay with it. And he's mostly successful with everything he does. It's fits and starts, but he is constantly moving forward. Whereas in the last movie, he fails and starts again and fails and starts again and fails and starts again. He's given a second chance, and finally at the end, he succeeds. So either was. Was okay with me. It still feels like an indie movie, though. It's off a shade or two, but I still felt okay with this. [00:34:18] Speaker C: So I. Again, like, we. We touched on the. The whole Raiders thing where, like, if you take him out of the movie, the movie still happens. He's intelligent in that movie. He is out thinking the ancient stuff. He is walking his way through. He's figuring out how you're supposed to get through where the. Where the things are buried, all that stuff. [00:34:37] Speaker B: And this one, he's a little more Harry Potter stumbling his way through. [00:34:40] Speaker C: Exactly, yeah. So I agree with you. He is constantly moving forward in this one where he's getting tripped up. He's an underdog in the first movie, right? Like, he's fighting an entire army. And he's doing his. Well, not fighting. He's trying to outsmart an entire army and he is outsmarting them. They're just always happen to be one step ahead of them. Which is unfortunate. But I like watching intelligent people do intelligent things. And I don't feel like I'm watching an intelligent person do intelligent things in this movie. I feel like I'm watching somebody buffoon their way through things. [00:35:05] Speaker B: Yes. With a buffoon at their side constantly howling at everything. [00:35:09] Speaker C: Right. Yeah. [00:35:11] Speaker A: Because he, he also, he's like, he, he gets the stick, the right measurement, he sorts out the, the light through the thing. We get to see all of that and him finding all of those successes, they're all stripped away from him. But at least he is intelligently moving forward with his wants and desires in this. He's just a mess again. That's why I say Short Rounds the heart of this movie. Because he's the one I'm invested in more than anything. [00:35:38] Speaker B: Yeah. I think the only. [00:35:39] Speaker C: We don't. Sorry. It's unfortunate we don't get Short Round in any of the other movies. That would have been nice. Sorry. Go ahead, Brian. [00:35:44] Speaker B: Yeah, I, I, I think the only time he does something kind of intelligent is when he's hanging from the bridge and he starts chanting to make the rocks get hot. Which was kind of weird because they were hot for a second and then suddenly they're not and he catches it and it's fine, whatever. And then when he's searching for the hidden passage, he finds the draft. He sees the, the flowers kind of blowing and he knows there's a draft. So he finds the secret passage. But that was really it other than that. [00:36:06] Speaker A: Right. [00:36:07] Speaker B: He is kind of stumbling his way through it, but he's moving forward at least. So Dan, you, you mentioned that you don't know why Short Round doesn't come back in other films. I too would like to know why that doesn't happen. I would love some backstory on Short Round. We talked about it in the Watch Party. That Short Round could have been a spin off of any style or ilk, whether it be a movie or a TV show or something. Would have been something I would have watched. Where it's not Indiana Jones, but it's in that world. I, I would have enjoyed that. And I'd like to know more about Short Rounds character. [00:36:43] Speaker C: I don't want, I don't think any of us have seen Dialog Destiny. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Brian has. I don't want the answer to this question, but because of when that movie took place and because of Kiyukwan's rise Back up to the top. It would be super fun to have him be a cameo in that. I don't know that I need it, but it would be super fun. But it's weird because this takes place a year before Raiders. Yeah. That they never mentioned him in Raiders. They never mentioned him in Last Crusade. Like, he just. He just is here for a little bit and disappears. But, yeah, in my mind. [00:37:13] Speaker A: In my mind, he is data from Goonies. That's where he went. Indy just dropped him off in Astoria. And. And that's. That's him. Enough said. [00:37:26] Speaker B: I. I agree. That's still looking for a similar character who just gets in the habit of making inventions is the only. Is the only twist on his character. Otherwise, he's the same, and I love him over there. I kind of think that Short Round was the best part of this film and probably the most enjoyable portion of it for me. [00:37:46] Speaker A: What did you think. What do you think about the villain in this movie? The main guy who's pulling hearts out of bodies and fighting Indy on the bridge? What do you guys think of the. The villain in this movie? [00:38:02] Speaker C: I'll let you go first, Brian. [00:38:04] Speaker B: Okay. I think this guy rules his people through shock and awe. If I saw a guy rip somebody's heart out, they didn't die. He lowered him into flames and they burn up, and his heart catches on fire as it's beating in the guy's hand, I would be like, okay, I'm not gonna mess with that dude. But neither am I gonna follow him anywhere. And not to mention he's constantly sacrificing his own people. He's a horrible dude who no one would ever realistically follow. Okay. Homelander is a better person than this guy. And so I just don't. I don't really. I don't really get why anybody follows him by choice. Unless he is making them drink all the zombie juice out of that skull. And that's why they all are just fall, you know, mindless, you know, zealots. For him, that's the only thing I can think of. He's creepy. He's creepy for sure. He's like, he's a scary dude, but it just doesn't seem like a realistic, plausible villain. [00:39:11] Speaker C: So we're seeing him do things that aren't explainable. So clearly we're supposed to believe that Kali Ma is a real deity or a real something. There's some real magic going on. [00:39:22] Speaker B: We see he's got some mojo. [00:39:24] Speaker C: We see him rip the heart out, and the heart keeps beating. The guy keeps Living and whatnot. There are a lot of people who follow religious leaders based on the religion more so than based off the. The quality of the leaders. So, yeah, I don't disagree with you, but it doesn't strike me as, like, nobody would ever follow him. [00:39:44] Speaker A: Like, [00:39:46] Speaker C: and, like, we talk about India going through some really tough times, and now, obviously, with Kali Ma, they're, like, rising up to the power again. The Thuggies are starting to come into power again, and they're going to rule the world. So, like, when you have nothing, the allure of anything is very appealing. That being said, I do not care for this villain whatsoever. Compared to last week, again, we were talking about. Gosh, I blanked on his name. The. The French. [00:40:11] Speaker B: He had. The competitive archaeologist. Yeah, the French guy. [00:40:15] Speaker C: Or the. The Nazi. Who. We don't even know his name, but he's just got this great little look to him, and you're kind of just like, yeah, the entire time. [00:40:22] Speaker B: Cool character. Yeah. [00:40:24] Speaker C: This guy was so forgettable. And, I mean, this is gonna give away my score in about a minute. But, like, I was so checked out by the time they were fighting, I just didn't care at all. [00:40:35] Speaker A: So, yeah, I mean, the bridge scene was cool. A nice spectacle. But, like, how it all panned out was like, oh, okay, I guess, you know, it was. [00:40:44] Speaker C: It was weird to me that Indy's sitting there with the sword above his head looking at the rope for, like, three minutes. [00:40:49] Speaker B: Yeah, get on the bridge. [00:40:50] Speaker C: Get on the bridge. And he swings like, what are you doing? Like, what did you think was about to happen? Like, I just don't understand the logic. [00:40:58] Speaker B: Sent out Short Round and Willie to keep him from cutting the bridge. [00:41:02] Speaker C: Exactly. [00:41:03] Speaker B: And then he looked surprised when it happened. And it was like, they're just wrapping [00:41:07] Speaker A: themselves up, and they're like, what's going on here? [00:41:10] Speaker C: I. I was blown away that he followed them on the bridge. I thought the exact same thing. I thought he was sending them onto the bridge. Now your friends are in danger. Now what are you gonna do? But then he puts himself in harm's way, and I'm like, you're dumb. You deserve this. [00:41:22] Speaker A: Also, it's like, he pulls out this dude's heart, but the guy's still living. So when he goes to pull out Indy's heart, who cares? He's still gonna be able to punch him. [00:41:32] Speaker C: Yeah, I guess that's true. Yeah, that's fair. [00:41:34] Speaker B: Also, if he's not worried about the stones, and he's like, the stones can be found again, and calls Indy's Bluff. [00:41:41] Speaker A: Yeah, just let him cut the bridge now. [00:41:43] Speaker B: Cut the bridge. Go pick him up later if you're not worried about it. That was terrible. It was just terrible plot right there. None of it made any sense at all. Looked cool, though. I love the bridge scene. It was exciting, but it just didn't make any sense as to how it came about. [00:41:59] Speaker A: Okay. I. I felt similar. I thought, like, yeah, he's a scary dude and he did some really cool things with, like, the heart pole and, like, drinking blood. And his look with the skull helmet and all this, like, he looked really badass. And Indiana Jones actually fights him in this movie where he doesn't actually fight the big bad guys in the first movie. So that was nice. Different, but I just didn't feel him, you know, I just really didn't feel him. I. I felt the vibe of the cult and the darkness and how brutal the whole scenario was. I just didn't feel the bad guy necessarily all that much. So I just wanted to see where your guys's headset were at on that. And then finally, I just want to be like, the cart mine scene was pretty fun. And of course, growing up playing Super Nintendo, it also reminds me always of Donkey Kong country. When you're riding the minecarts, it's just so fun. So that was, like, one of the highlights of the movie for me as well. [00:42:58] Speaker B: Yeah. Minecart scene, very fun, very unrealistic. Like, I kept thinking when they're, like, riding the minecart over the lava, I'm like, who built this? Why did you build this? Like, what is going on? [00:43:11] Speaker C: I. I mean, the movie starts off with him jumping out of a plane with a rubber dinghy. Yeah. And living. So, like, I. I wasn't too concerned with realism on this one from the very beginning. [00:43:22] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:43:26] Speaker C: I did like. I will admit, I did like the scene where he's, like, stopping the cart with his foot. [00:43:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:43:31] Speaker C: He gets like, ah, water, water. And then like, the water, water, water. Yeah, that was decent. [00:43:38] Speaker B: There were some things that worked and there were some things that didn't work. So, you know, a little hit and miss. [00:43:43] Speaker C: Yeah. If you, like, we do. And you want to help support us, please consider joining our Patreon. There's a link down below. Shout out to our producers as well as our executive producer, Dino. And a huge thank you to our writers, Elder JM990, Ms. Hillary, and Real Bubba Hotep. Thank you all so much. [00:44:00] Speaker B: All right, so Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom felt like they wanted to make a great sequel. But for some reason they were distracted or just didn't have the heart to do it right. There were so many sequences that fell short of what they could have been, so many things that looked worse than it could have been, and so many characters that were so underdeveloped and underutilized that this movie was just way shy of the mark. I think what bothers me the most is that you come off of such a high that the first movie is. And of course we see this in most franchises, but this one more than most. Because if you watched last week, and by all means you should, it got a really high score from us. A really high score. And then you go to this, which could have been just as good, but it wasn't. It fell shy in a lot of areas and it was. Almost every area, in fact was just could have been better. And I'll leave it to the other guys to fill in the details. For me, the movie still gets a 78. It's still a good movie, it's still entertaining, and I still had a lot of fun with it. But man, I wish it could have been a lot better. [00:45:13] Speaker C: Last week we did raise the Lost Ark, or two weeks ago we did that and I gave that movie a hundred. I think that movie is perfect. I had a ton of fun with it. As I mentioned, I wasn't allowed to watch Temple of Doom right away when I was younger. So I saw Raiders of Lost Ark and Last Crusade, another movie that I really enjoy quite a bit before I got to see this movie. So not only did I have the high of Raiders, I had both of those movies that I was looking forward to and then the comedown of this one. But even re watching this one recently, I just really, really don't like this film. I don't think it portrays Indiana Jones as the character that I think that he is supposed to be. I don't like their portrayal of the woman in this story. I think the effects are just awful. I don't love that it's literally just contained in one little area. Whereas all of his other adventures, he's globetrotting, he's going all over the world and exploring different things. I don't like that he doesn't have a sense of purpose. He's just kind of fumbling his way into things and I just don't have fun with this one. I mentioned at the end, like I or a minute ago, I was checked out. By the time the main villain even comes in and starts doing stuff like I just did not care about Most of the things in this movie, the humor is really bad. The opening scene where they're chasing the ice just makes me roll my eyes the entire time. I find very little about this movie enjoyable now. It is still Indiana Jones. It's still Harrison Ford. It's well acted. Parts of it are well done. The music is good. I don't know. I find this one to be such an incredible letdown of this original trilogy. It's really hard for me to give it a decent score. This is coming in at a 58 for me, which is a huge drop off from the 100 from last week. There's just no reason to go back to this one. I just. I just don't find it entertaining. I don't find anything in this one that I really like or that I stick to. [00:46:59] Speaker A: All right, okay. Good, good, good, good. What else is there to say? I'm going to talk about the things I did enjoy because we did talk about a lot of the negative things, but there are a lot of good things. I do like that they attempted to give Indiana Jones an arc. Did it come through all that? Well, maybe not so much, but he did feel more like the James Bond s character at the beginning of this movie. And I could see where he was going, going at the end to get us to Raiders of the Last Ark. So I like that because we didn't get in the first movie. I also do enjoy that as a sequel, they didn't try to just remake the first movie and they made this a very much different movie. It is darker in tone. It is quite a different story. He doesn't globetrot all over the place, which he still could have, I think, you know, if they. If they played their cards right or wrote a better script. But I. I didn't mind the switch to keep it fresh and not just a rehash of the same thing. So many times franchises just rehash and that doesn't always work either. So at least they attempted that here. So I do appreciate that. Even though maybe it wasn't fully realized or actualized in the right way. What else? What else? Short Round? I mean, unlike Dan, I grew up with this movie, Short Round. I was just relating to growing up always and still do to this day. I still think he's the heart of the movie. Not to get away from indie. I think Harrison Ford is still charming and very enjoyable in this movie as well. But I think Short Round just trumps him in this. He just glows a little brighter. And so that's what keeps Me coming back to this movie specifically. That said, overall, the action is still quite good, even though way more unrealistic. And the effects are still quite good for the time. And some hold up really well, some not so much. As we mentioned, it's still a fun watch. And as far as, like a franchise goes and an action movie goes, I think it's still a pretty quality film. Rating over all, 1 over overall, 80 out of 100. It's not bad, but it's not Raiders of the Last Arc. [00:49:16] Speaker C: And with that, we see Indiana Jones dropping one position to second place on the list. I went from the top place to the bottom place with a 79, Brian coming in with an 80, and Will with an 87, giving this a total score of 84, still just behind Kill Bill. And I think there's better things to come. So this one might be able to regain that top place, which is not something we see happen very often. When a movie falls, it usually starts to continue falling. I think this has a chance to regain its former glory. But what do you guys think? Are you happy with where this one landed? You both gave it a higher score than I did. [00:49:50] Speaker A: I think it's funny that we've all switched positions here. You are the hot. I just lost. [00:49:58] Speaker B: Never mind. I'm. [00:49:59] Speaker A: I'm gone. [00:50:01] Speaker C: Start again, start again, start again. You think it's funny? [00:50:04] Speaker A: Yeah, I just think it's funny that we had all switched. You were the highest and the lowest. I think I was. Oh, maybe we're similar. [00:50:11] Speaker B: Maybe. [00:50:11] Speaker A: Maybe Brian was in the middle for both movies. [00:50:14] Speaker C: I think Brian was the bottom. You were the middle. [00:50:16] Speaker B: I was a 92 on. On the last one, I believe. [00:50:19] Speaker C: Yeah. So Brian was the lowest and then I was the highest and now I've gone lowest. And Brian's middle to your high, so. [00:50:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:50:26] Speaker C: Trend of always being in color, whether it be green or red. So, you know, that's good. [00:50:32] Speaker B: Well, I'm. I think. Well, I'll just give it away. I think that the third movie in this franchise is the best movie. It's my favorite, but I haven't seen it in a long time. So we're going to be re watching that at the watch party. You can join us, of course, if you're a Patreon member, you can come watch that with us every Sunday night at 7 Central, 8 Eastern. We put those on. So we'll be watching that. And I don't know. It's been a long time. I don't know if I'm still gonna find Sean Connery. Putting it together for me or not, so we'll have to see. But I do think these numbers are going to go up before they go down. [00:51:12] Speaker C: I'll play my hand, too. I agree. I would be shocked if it doesn't. [00:51:17] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I haven't seen the last two movies, so I don't know how consistent. [00:51:22] Speaker B: Yeah, we're just talking about number three here. [00:51:24] Speaker C: I only met next week. [00:51:27] Speaker A: We might be riding some waves here. We might. [00:51:28] Speaker B: Yeah, here we go. [00:51:29] Speaker A: Waves here in between. So I'm looking forward to how this all turns out in the end. Anyway, that's. That's all I'll say at this point. [00:51:36] Speaker C: All right, so that's our rating of Indiana Jones, the Temple of Doom, but what's yours? Leave a comment down below. I'd love to hear what you have to say. We record this live over Twitch tv, the Mongolie Show. So you can head over there and hit the follow button if you want to hang out with us live every Thursday at 9:00pm Eastern Standard Time. Or if you made it this far in the video, you probably enjoyed it, consider hitting the like and subscribe buttons that we see you in the next one.