Ep 108 - Sinister 2 (2015)

[00:00:00] Speaker A: The Collins family starts their training to star in the Boogeyman's next home movie. But so and so steps in to say hello, hello. And is quickly on the go based on what he knows to attempt to stop the show. That is, if he isn't too slow. [00:00:16] Speaker B: Jump scare. [00:00:24] Speaker C: Completely overrated. [00:00:25] Speaker B: Hello, everybody, and welcome back to our rating. The show where I get together with two of my friends, we take a movie franchise, break it down by movie, give it an overall score, and throw it back up on the board to see where it lands. Compared to the other movie franchises. This week we're talking about 2015's Sinister 2. And I'm joined, as always, by Brian and Will. Brian, how you doing this week? [00:00:43] Speaker C: I'm doing pretty good, Dan. Watched some good TV this week and I've got some shows I'm excited to continue on and some movies I'm excited to look forward to to get to watching. So, yeah, it's been a good cinema and television week for me. [00:00:58] Speaker B: Very nice. What about you, Will? [00:01:00] Speaker A: I have barely watched anything, but I'm doing great. [00:01:05] Speaker B: Excellent, excellent. Now, I believe last week was the first week first watch of Sinister for all of us. I have to assume this is the first watch of Sinister 2 as well. [00:01:13] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:01:14] Speaker C: Yep. [00:01:14] Speaker B: Excellent. Yes. I didn't get to watch this one with the Watch Party. Watch this one on my own and had to do with subtitles in like a fairly public area, like of my house. Not like, whatever. Like I couldn't be in the basement with this one, so I couldn't have it cranked to get like the maximum effect of the jump scares. But honestly, this movie worked pretty well without that. Like there weren't a ton of jump scares. It was more playing off of the creepy factor of like the Children of the Corn and whatnot. And just kind of the relationship between Deputy Ex Deputy so and so, which is his actual IMDb name. [00:01:47] Speaker C: Yeah, isn't that great? Isn't that great? [00:01:49] Speaker B: And the. The wife. [00:01:51] Speaker C: So, Dan, I think that because you were watching with subtitles in a noisy environment, you may have just not noticed the repetitive attempts at horrible jump scares throughout this entire film. Because I felt that like there were too many and none of them worked for me, I don't think. But maybe one or two got me. And it was only because it was just so loud in my ears when I was watching. It was just a loud bang and that was it. [00:02:22] Speaker B: I remember jumping at one point. I couldn't tell you for the life of me right now what point that was, but there's Definitely one where I was like, all right, you got me there. But for the most part it felt like even the vibe they were going for was more of like a creepy vibe. You know what, I do know where the jump scare was, was more of like a creepy vibe than like a full on like jump scary horror movie. Now again, maybe that is the environment that I was watching. So it is interesting to see your, your point on that one. But it feels like for the most part it was more just like they wanted to try and get your skin crawling more so than they wanted to like really have you scream out loud. What do you think, Will? [00:02:57] Speaker A: I won't disagree with that, but I have no strong opinion on it either. I, I, I didn't find this one scary. I didn't find the first one scary. I didn't think the children acting was any better in this movie. I, I didn't think the story was any more intriguing and they got rid of any of the interesting characters I thought from the first one. So I, I didn't have a lot to grip into on this movie overall. [00:03:28] Speaker B: Fair enough. I, I actually disagree pretty hard with you on some of that stuff. I definitely think that the one thing we really praised, like the universally praised in the first one was, was the snuff films. [00:03:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:41] Speaker B: And I feel like those took a pretty significant step backward in this one. I really didn't. However, every other aspect in this movie I liked more than the first one. [00:03:51] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:03:51] Speaker B: I actually found the character significantly more engaging. I actually enjoyed the, the relationship between ex deputy so and so and Courtney and even her like less than one dimensional husband. [00:04:04] Speaker A: Right. [00:04:05] Speaker B: Like I, you hate him, but you're supposed to hate him. And I kind of wish he did have a little bit more depth to his character. But like that added something to the overall storyline where you're like, oh, like, because there's that generational trauma that he's bringing and giving to his children because we know that he's assaulting them, that's kind of opening the door to them being able to be succumbed by bagel and do all these horrible stuff. And that kind of leads you to like, oh, was there something going on behind the shadows of Ethan Hawke's family in the last movie? Like, was he maybe not the great dad we were told he was? Because we never saw it. You never see him being a very good dad. [00:04:41] Speaker A: He self proclaimed, he was. [00:04:43] Speaker B: Sure. But like it kind of opens that door because like, even in the found footage scenes from the first one, from this one, there's no sound so it looks like they're really happy families all the time. But then when we see the found footage in this family with the Collins family, because there's no sound, you easily could see that he's just teaching his son how to golf. And that could look like a happy memory, even though we know that he's under extreme duress. And it kind of brings up this like, okay, what's going on with all these other families that's making it available that these kids would be sucked in by Bagel and his nonsense? I don't know. That kind of intrigued me significantly more than anything I saw in the first movie. [00:05:20] Speaker A: So I've got a question then for you, Dan. In this movie, if feedback feels like more the children are kind of coerced into believing or. Or wanting to do what they're doing instead of just being, like, possessed by this demon. Did you enjoy that aspect of this film or do you think it was a one off and it was just happened to be this twin was the evil one, so he wanted to do all this nasty stuff. [00:05:46] Speaker B: So that's an interesting point. I liked the aspect that the one son did didn't want it. And that kind of, again, kind of leads you into this. Like, how many of these kids were coerced into this? How many of these kids were corrupted before Bagel showed up? How many of these kids were turned because they kept watching these videos because they didn't have the strength of will that Dylan had to say no to these ghosts? And it was really weird. It was kind of weird how the kids were so accepting of the ghosts and just being like, yeah, especially I think it's Zach who was like, why didn't you choose me? I can see you. Like, that was a little weird, I'll give you that. But I kind of like seeing the two. Are they twins or are they just brothers? [00:06:23] Speaker C: No, they're just brothers. Are they twins? They didn't. [00:06:26] Speaker A: I thought. I thought they were twins. [00:06:28] Speaker C: They might be twins. They're not identical twins, though. [00:06:30] Speaker B: They're definitely not. That could be. As far as the brothers going, I kind of like seeing that. Like, the father abusing the one led him down the path where he's like, no, I'm gonna, you know, accept violence and this is gonna be the way that I am. But the other kid was still like, no, like, this doesn't have to be who I am. This doesn't have to be the path that I go down. I'm kind of succumbing to it by pure pressure. And because Like, I'm scared of the dark or whatever. But you can clearly tell this is not the direction he wants to go. And it was kind of fun seeing that internal struggle. Was it great acting? No. I'm defending this movie a lot for the score it's about to get. But I think there were more redemptive features in this film than the first one. If only. The fact that I could see the movie was definitely a huge plus for me. [00:07:16] Speaker A: Yeah. And I do think there was more character arcs and development in this movie than the last. I'll give you that for sure. My biggest problem is you know exactly what you're getting into in this movie, because we know who the boogeyman is and they didn't. I thought. I was hoping that, like, the whole movie angle was like, that was the method he used for. For Ethan Hawke's character. Because Ethan Hawke's into, like, true crime and unraveling mysteries. But instead it's just like, no, this guy just really likes making home videos because he's a demon. And that's what they're into. It just was, like, so tired by this one. And they didn't even do the Super 8 movies the same way. It was like 16 millimeter instead. And it just felt lazy. And the films themselves were boring, comparatively. Like, they were, like, overly complex for no reason, which, well made. Made it less interesting. [00:08:10] Speaker C: And I just. [00:08:13] Speaker A: So it didn't turn. It didn't turn anything on its head. That's my biggest problem. It didn't turn anything on. There wasn't any weird reveals or anything to, like, keep me wanting to be like, oh, what actually is going to happen here? It just plays out by the numbers. [00:08:26] Speaker B: So I will say, as far as the home movies go, yes, they got dramatically worse. Like, they were just not as creepy. The point of the first movie, I thought was, like, the deaths are done in a way that little kids could do them. And then this one, they really tried to, like, stretch that. We were, like, lifting these. How these people. [00:08:46] Speaker C: Yeah, the four kids above the water where the alligators got them. Like, how's the kid doing this? [00:08:50] Speaker B: Exactly. And that's all I could think of is, like, there's. The whole point was the kids are the ones enacting this, and there's no way this kids do it. I know. Granted. [00:08:58] Speaker C: I don't know. [00:08:58] Speaker B: Maybe we talked. [00:09:00] Speaker C: I will say the alligator jumping out of the water and grabbing the first guy. That was the one jump scare that I actually. That got me. And it was kind of gruesome. I thought that was. That was great. But it didn't fit with this movie. And it was the only one of the snuff films that I found interesting in any way. Still didn't fit with the movie. So it still bothered me. All the other snuff films, it was like. It was like the Saw movies, how the first movie was good with good writing and interesting ideas and things that made you cringe. And then every movie after that was just trying to double down on the violence of those torture chambers and stuff. And that's how I felt with the stuff films on this. They had more of them. They were more gruesome. They didn't make as much sense. They weren't as. Well, you know, I. I praised the director of the snuff films the last time because they were so good and the rest of the movie sucked. The snuff films in this were terrible and they didn't make a lot of sense. They didn't fit with the rest of the theme. And. And. And again, we will. You were talking about the Super 8 to the 13 millimeter or whatever. They were talking about how it could be recorded on any kind of medium. So we had records, we had art pieces, we had all kinds of stuff. And it was like, okay, so you're trying to build on this world, I guess. But why? Like, that didn't even make. Why do we even need to do that? Just keep it. The Super 8 film from the first one, that was cool. [00:10:22] Speaker B: I agree. The. The Super 8 to what? 60 millimeter? I'm not a film nerd. As ironically, I didn't even notice. Like, it was just an old camera to me. So whatever. But the thing I didn't like was in my brain, in my head. Canon Bagel was the one recording them as they went and did the murders. And so him running around with like a sigh in one hand and a camera in the other, that kind of bothered me. I liked where it ended up because the whole point was like, if you can destroy the camera, then you can't make the film. And that kind of will piss Bagel off or whatever. Like, you do make your sacrifice. Not your sacrifice, your offering. Yeah, you can't make your offering. So that was kind of interesting turn. But I guess it just didn't click in my brain. That's what we were leading towards. So the entire time he's just running around like this. I was just like, this looks stupid. So there are parts of this movie definitely that I don't. I agree with you. I did not care for. But Overall, I just found myself more engaged in the story. Right. [00:11:25] Speaker A: And that could be the characters. And, you know, the actual plot was thicker in this one overall. But, like, just this whole idea of this ancient demon being so attached to technology in order to make his curse and sacrifices work doesn't make any sense at all. Like, oh, he broke the camera. Who cares? Eat the kid and move on to the next family. [00:11:51] Speaker B: What the. [00:11:51] Speaker A: What are you doing here? [00:11:53] Speaker C: Get out your cell phone and record, like, what does it need to be? We've already shown that he can do it on different forms of medium, so who cares? [00:12:01] Speaker B: Do you see the kids with cell phones? [00:12:03] Speaker C: Not really. [00:12:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:05] Speaker C: No idea. [00:12:06] Speaker B: Oh, I guess he does text, because he, like, the one boy text, like, send helper or something like that. [00:12:10] Speaker C: So. [00:12:10] Speaker B: I mean. [00:12:11] Speaker C: Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Yeah. I. I started out on the right foot with this film. They bring back Deputy so and so, and I was like, okay, I would have rather had Thompson than so and so, but I'll take it. Let's see where this goes. And it started out okay. I had some questions of, does he know that the family is already cursed and that's why he's trying to keep them in there? I wasn't clear about that until later. It became obvious that, yes, he was trying to keep them in the house. And then by. By that time, the rest of the film had fallen apart for me. We had introduced a huge cast of child actors that were all terrible. They were all terrible. I did not like any of them. And they kept coming back to them and getting worse and worse as the film progressed. You had the one brother who was really evil, and I think Bubba Hotep said in the. In the watch party, he's like, this kid doesn't need a demon. He'll kill his parents all on his own. Like, he's. He's a psycho. He doesn't need this. And I didn't. I just didn't like any of it. [00:13:17] Speaker B: I don't think he started off that way. Like, when you first see them in the grocery store and like, the first couple scenes, I don't get the impression that he's quite like that. I think he's getting turned over time. And even the. The child. That's what he's saying. The Children of the Corn. Like, the main ghost was kind of like, well, we didn't really need you anyways. Like, we were always trying to get to your brother. Which was a weird twist, I guess, that was trying to corrupt. [00:13:37] Speaker C: Was that the big reveal? Because it seemed dumb. I Mean, I didn't see it coming, but it was dumb. And I was like, okay. And I guess, yeah, they were just trying to get him pissed off enough that he would go through it. But in the first one, the little girl was completely normal until she wasn't. And in this one, it was this trajectory over time, and it was different, and it didn't fit the rules. And so I was like, why is it this. [00:14:05] Speaker B: Now, see, I'm gonna flip. I. I'm gonna completely disagree with you. I liked. Because what we said in the first one was it just ends so abruptly. Like, there's just no danger. No danger. No danger. You're dead. [00:14:16] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:14:16] Speaker B: Like this one, you can see him falling into madness and him getting darker and darker and darker and kind of going down that path, which was okay. [00:14:24] Speaker C: But it wasn't the rules we built on in the first one. And, Dan, you're a stickler for rules in a movie, and so that's why I'm so surprised you're. You're okay with it. I think had the first one had a little more of this in it, it would have felt scarier. You would have felt the danger increasing, which we had a problem with in this one. I'm like, it's not supposed to work like that. And it just irritated me as it progressed, even though it shouldn't have, because it was a better idea. [00:14:49] Speaker B: Yeah. Now, what I would have. Watching this one, thinking back on the first one, what I would have liked is because we've got all these scenes where Ethan Hawke is waking up in the middle of the night and his camera is rolling or the projector is rolling. He has to go and check in on it. I wish we'd gotten some sort of a hint that the daughter was watching those movies. [00:15:07] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:15:07] Speaker B: And then, like, running away. And that's why they were playing. Because then it would make. Because, like, you're right. I love rules in movies. I don't feel like the first one stuck to its own rules, so that's why them breaking them in this one doesn't bother me as much. But that would have been like, oh, cool. That is why she's corrupted. That's what's going on. Then we see it even more so in this movie. That would have made more sense. That would have connected some dots for me. [00:15:26] Speaker A: Yeah. To be devil's advocate. [00:15:29] Speaker B: Well, just. [00:15:29] Speaker A: Just because we didn't see her being coursed into it doesn't mean she wasn't in the first movie. They just didn't show it because. [00:15:37] Speaker B: Agreed. [00:15:38] Speaker A: They don't care. But. [00:15:40] Speaker C: Or maybe they did show it, but it was so dark, we couldn't see it happening. [00:15:43] Speaker A: I don't know. [00:15:44] Speaker B: She was there the whole time. You just had no idea. She's actually behind Will right now. Yeah. [00:15:49] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:15:50] Speaker A: Eating popcorn, watching the films. [00:15:52] Speaker B: Yeah. The little kids acting, it wasn't good, but they were also very, very clearly trying to be the children of the corn, like they were trying to do. [00:16:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:04] Speaker B: A very standoffish portrayal. Yeah. Which. Yeah, it didn't really work, but I can also see where they're going, so. Yeah, whatever. [00:16:13] Speaker C: At first, the lead kid, I was like, ooh, this kid's really creepy. [00:16:17] Speaker B: Ghost. [00:16:18] Speaker C: Or the ghost kid. Yeah, the lead ghost kid. He was really creepy at first, and then after a while, I was like, this kid's just a douchebag. Like, I don't like him any. Like that. That was kind of the thing with me. Like, they would introduce a character, and I like them at first. And then as I got to know the character, I didn't like them. I didn't like the acting. I didn't like the dialogue. I was like, nope, nope, never mind. I changed my mind. It was a series of first impressions that went well and just ended horribly for me. Every. Every turn in this film. I had such high hopes that they could improve on its predecessor, and instead, they just tried new things and didn't do a very good job with them. That's. That's my opinion of it. Dan, you seem to have enjoyed this film and thought about it a lot more. I found this very not thought provoking whatsoever. You came through with some ideas in the beginning, and I was like, wow, I'm. I'm gonna sit back and listen to Dan talk about this, because you had a lot of stuff I didn't even think about, nor cared to think about, because 15 minutes in, I'd basically lost interest in everybody. [00:17:26] Speaker B: So I definitely didn't have that. Like, I actually kind of forgot this was a horror movie in certain chunks of it. Like, I was kind of just in on the ex deputy so and so and Courtney story. [00:17:35] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:17:36] Speaker B: And, like, her whole, like. Like, I didn't. I should have picked up faster on who she was trying to evade and why she was trying to evade them. But then, like, that whole plot line I actually, like, look, I. You know how people have guilty pleasures like this is that, like, I am aware this is not a great movie. I'm not defending this because I think it's gonna get an 80 or something like that. I just enjoyed it more Than I was anticipating because I didn't like the first one. And usually sequels go downhill, so it's like, okay, there's actually something here. The scene where the. The state trooper shows up. I don't know how things work in the states, but the state trooper shows up and they're like, oh, we're here to take the kids. And the deputy's like, well, that's not how this works. You need to have a deputy, like a sheriff stepping up to sheriff. Thank you. You have to have a sheriff here. Him stepping up to them and them like, kind of backing away and being like, dude, we. We bluffed and they called our bluff. And I'm not losing my job for you. Could it have been better? Sure. But, like, that was such a. A fun power trippy moment. Not power trip. That's not the right word. [00:18:34] Speaker A: No, he's fantasy moment. [00:18:35] Speaker B: It was like a fantasy moment, right? Like. [00:18:37] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:18:38] Speaker B: How many times have you, like, wished you could pull a thing like that off in real life? And it's like, oh, that felt good, even. Yeah. Somebody else do it. That felt good. [00:18:45] Speaker A: Would you say you like damsel in distress movies then, Dan? Because that's kind of how it came across to me is like, so and so is like the knight in shining armor to the damsel in distress in this movie. Right. It. [00:18:59] Speaker C: It definitely had a little of that. [00:19:01] Speaker B: I'm not anti that in a. Do I want the women to have their own motivations? Their own. Of course, yes, yes, whatever's. Sure. But like, I'm not like, oh, man. Night in shining armor. This movie's trash. Like, I don't write it off because of it. [00:19:18] Speaker A: Right, right, right. [00:19:19] Speaker B: Do I go out of my way for it? Not particularly, but. [00:19:21] Speaker A: Okay. [00:19:22] Speaker B: Okay. Just wondered. I just enjoyed that scene. I have dealt with a lot of those deputies in my life. Not that situation, obviously. Standing up to him and getting him to back down felt good. [00:19:33] Speaker C: Yeah, I. I did like that. How he's like, well, I know what I'm talking about and I know that you're out of bounds. And so he, like, they entered into his court and didn't realize it and they got shut down. And that was cool. It was a cool scene. However, the father of the kids kind of ruins it for me because he was just so over the top, on the nose, abusive dad. Like their first dinner at the table, and it's like 10 seconds into the conversation and he explodes on the kid throwing mashed potatoes at him and stuff. And I was like, this is. This guy would have been Arrested for child abuse so many years ago. Like, it was just so over the top. I love it when they have that subtle abuse where you try to explain it to someone and you can't. You can't even explain how you're being abused mentally or physically because it's so subtle and good. The writing of a story like that is. You know that. I like that this was just over the top and on the nose. I don't want to give examples of other films and TV and stuff right now, but there's lots of good stuff that comes to mind, and this wasn't one of them. That dad was basically. They're like, hey, we got to make him so horrible and evil and terrible that when we set the sky on fire, people are cheering. Yeah, people were cheering, by the way. And then the. The brother also became so evil and horrible that when he died, you were supposed to be okay with it. But I was like, he wasn't evil and horrible until they moved into this house. He was still an innocent victim to start. And it was Bagel or whatever, the ghost children that turned him, but they needed him to. I didn't like the way they ended his character. I think the kid should have kind of, like, woke up from his evil possession or something and apologized to his brother. Something different than this. Although seeing the kid die and the other ghosts fade away, I was like, all right, sweet. Don't have to worry about them coming back at number three. [00:21:41] Speaker B: So I'm not going to disagree with you. The dad was half of a character at best. He was such a nothing. Whatever. He was just a villain. [00:21:48] Speaker C: Yeah. Very cliche. [00:21:49] Speaker B: Need a ton more from him because he did exactly what he was supposed to do. But it would have been better if he'd at least had some charm when other people were around. [00:22:02] Speaker A: So. [00:22:02] Speaker B: Yeah. Because you get the impression that, like, everybody works for him. He's clearly, like, his dad was hot and he inherited family business, and, like, you can kind of get where he's coming from. But, like, if everybody else was like, he's such a nice guy. Why are you doing this to him? As opposed to, like, he's kind of a dick to every. Well, no, he's a super dick to everybody. He was like, why would anybody follow this guy's lead? Like, even the fact that, like, the judge is, like, writing him, you know, whatever he needs to get his family back, I'm like, why do you want your family back? You don't like any of these people, and none of them want to be there. I Don't understand how she fell in love with him in the first place. Like, how did she fall in love 2 kids with him? [00:22:37] Speaker C: Exactly. It was very poor writing on those characters. [00:22:40] Speaker B: 100%. But you're right. The point of this movie is not him. The point of the movie is like the kids and everything. And you get there by showing the generational trauma. It's just. They fast tracked it. Could they have made it longer? Sure. Did you want to watch more of this movie? [00:22:55] Speaker C: No, I. I see. The thing is, is that I am currently watching things with Abus abusive parents that have really good writing. And it doesn't need to be a longer film. They can smooth that out with better writing, I think, and have the same sequences without wasting any more of my time and make me feel a little bit better about this character. Even the father's interactions with the police officers outside the house. He was a dick. They wouldn't. They wouldn't be doing this for him unless they owed him some money or something. And maybe that's what the angle they were going for. I don't know. [00:23:26] Speaker B: But I get the impression that he runs the county. Like, whatever it is he does. We don't even know what he does, but, like, he must be in charge of something massive. And everybody's got their hands in his. Or he's got his hands in everybody's pockets or however that saying goes. Yeah, the fact that the judge, the police, like, literally everybody was just doing whatever he wanted. He's clearly got thumbs on a lot of. [00:23:48] Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, from the right. From the jump, he pulls up and parks his car in the yard, which is an absolute Chad dick move right there. And. And it was. It was over the top. He should have like, parked, walked up nicely, been super nice in front of everybody, and then whispered something horrible in her ear to make her slap him in front of everybody. And then they're on his side, not hers. Something like that. That's off the top of my head. And it was way better idea than what they went with in this film. His character was terrible. The. The writing for all the characters, in my opinion, was pretty bad. We took our ex deputy, so. And so it still cracks me up that that's his legit name on the screen. And he was kind of a fun character who really developed in the first one and became somebody kind of important and almost swept under the rug, unfortunately. And in this one, he comes back for his moment to shine and he had his one episode with the police out in front, but the rest of his Character kind of got a little boring or sad and it wasn't as good. I just. [00:24:51] Speaker B: So I. Again, I really liked the aspect that, like in the first movie, he's the one that figured out how the curse works. Like, you move into a house that somebody's been killed in, you get. The ghost gets on your radar, and when you move, that's how he spreads his influence as he goes to a new house. And now he's got access to two houses, theoretically. I like that he's the one that figured that out. And so he's the one in this movie going around burning down those houses, taking away Bagel's influence, and that's how he runs into this family. Like, that worked a lot better for me than if he'd still been the deputy and was going to investigate something stupid. You know what I mean? [00:25:26] Speaker C: That was cool. [00:25:26] Speaker B: Character had purpose. His character had purpose. That being said, at the end of this movie, there is no chance in hell that ex deputy so and so and Courtney and probably the little boy don't all go to jail, considering the very day that the, like the judge and the police force her to come back home. He's burned at the cross. The house is burned down. Like, there's no. All of them are going to jail forever. Right? [00:25:50] Speaker C: Deputy so and so drives out of the bushes and runs over a kid. [00:25:56] Speaker B: Which I. [00:25:57] Speaker C: And I was like, sweet. Any other movie that sucks. And it's terrible writing, but I'm happy to see that kid get hit with a car. Didn't make any sense that he would drive into that kid because he still believes it's Bagel possessing them, doing his evil work. I don't see why he would hit a kid with a car. [00:26:18] Speaker A: Maybe he just didn't see him. [00:26:19] Speaker C: Maybe. [00:26:20] Speaker B: But he know. Does he not know that the kids are the ones being possessed? [00:26:23] Speaker A: He knows the kids are doing the crime. [00:26:25] Speaker C: Doing the crime. But I think he's. He's got to understand it's, you know, the white face guy doing the act, pulling the strings or so. Anyway, it was just. It was just kind of weird. [00:26:36] Speaker B: He's trying to save Courtney more so than he cares about the kid. Yeah, but I. I thought it was weird that the kid decided for once, like, because all the other murders take place at the same time. And then this kid was like, let's draw this out real long. I'm just going to burn one at a time to give you time to get here. But then also he hits them with the truck, gets them down, and it's like Run into the cornfield. I'm like, you have a truck right there. You've got a truck. [00:26:59] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:27:00] Speaker B: The kid's not magic. Just hit him again. [00:27:02] Speaker C: What are you doing? [00:27:03] Speaker B: Like, [00:27:05] Speaker A: yeah, you know, you got to build the suspense somehow, I guess, and just throw logic out the window. That's how this movie works, right? [00:27:14] Speaker B: Pretty much. [00:27:15] Speaker A: Also, can I just say at the top of the movie, the ladies in the grocery store, she's like, boys, do you remember what rutabaga means? They're like, not really. [00:27:25] Speaker B: It means run. [00:27:26] Speaker A: Oh, okay. [00:27:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:29] Speaker C: Immediately rudabagan. Just say run. [00:27:34] Speaker B: You don't have time. [00:27:35] Speaker A: You're all together. Just go. Just. [00:27:37] Speaker C: What are you doing? [00:27:38] Speaker B: So not as much anymore, but, like, years ago, I did have a word like that with my kids. [00:27:44] Speaker A: Sure. [00:27:45] Speaker B: And there was a plan for what they were supposed to do in that situation specifically or in public, because people might recognize me. So if somebody, you know, I work in a jail, somebody recognized me. I want them to not pretend like they're with me kind of a thing. Yeah, exactly. So, like, I got that. But then when we sit in the movie, I'm like, you yelled it in front of everybody anyway. Like, exactly. Just yell, run. Like, what are you doing here? [00:28:06] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, just take off again. It's the. The expediting everything and quickening the pace. But it's like, you don't need that. It's very clear. People are after you. Just go. You don't have. [00:28:19] Speaker C: I think the idea of the rudabaga was for the viewers to see that this has been an ongoing thing and they're developing a system to escape is all that was for. Again, I think there's better ways to portray that than this ridiculous idea in the. In the room, you know, I don't know. [00:28:40] Speaker B: Well, and even if this has been happening, it kind of implies, like, did she just go one county over? Like, if she went to the entire county. [00:28:49] Speaker C: Yeah, it seemed like it. Yeah. [00:28:52] Speaker B: Somewhere. Like, why are you just like, oh, yeah, no, he's like, he's 10 minutes away. He won't find us. [00:28:57] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:28:57] Speaker B: What are you doing? Yeah, but I guess in fairness, she didn't have anywhere else to go. Right. Like, she's there because it's her friend's property that they're trying to sell or something. Like, I get that to an extent, but, like, maybe get your friend to buy you groceries. I don't know. Like, yeah, [00:29:15] Speaker C: yeah. [00:29:16] Speaker A: Hey, we needed the story. [00:29:17] Speaker C: We needed the story. [00:29:19] Speaker A: So Brian at one point said something about the next movie after Horrible release. This movie is not getting a sequel. There was a plan, I think there was like a, there was a plan to make the third movie integrate in with the insidious movies which are made by the same production company. And that all went out the window when this movie bombed horribly in the theater. So are y' all upset about that or. [00:29:47] Speaker B: I, I, no, I'm not upset about it. But also like second one got better, so I mean, maybe the third one would be good. I don't know. It'd be a while to get to get to good, I guess. But it was a step up. [00:30:03] Speaker C: See for, for me, this one got worse because I liked Ethan Hawke in the first one. His character, though I didn't like his character. I thought he did a very good job portraying that character. The dialogue was good in that and the snuff films were very creepy and it was enough for me to get something out of it. This one, I didn't have a character I could attach myself to. I had high hopes for so and so, but he didn't turn out very good. His interactions with the, with the mom were okay, but the kids in this film just absolutely destroyed it for me. The sound was bad, the special effects and the practical effects, almost non existent, were bad. The snuff films were too many, running too long and didn't make sense. And it, for me, this movie was a big step down from the first one. [00:30:52] Speaker B: I, I, I'm not going to disagree with most things you just said. I, I did think it was funny that they like Too Fast Too Furious, the people in the church with the rats and whatnot. I was like, oh, I've never seen that outside of that movie before. So interesting. [00:31:05] Speaker A: I think it's a medieval torture method that Too Fast Too Furious got from. So it's not an unknown practice, but. [00:31:12] Speaker B: Oh, I'm, I'm sure. But it was just one of those funny things. Like that's all I could think of when I was watching this was like Ryan Campbell or Connor, Brian o', Connor, whatever his name is. Yeah, I know this movie didn't get good reviews, but I'm looking at the box office. This movie got a budget of 10 million and made 53 like five times your return. Like that's not bad. But even if you double it for whatever, that's still $30,000 more. $33 million more. [00:31:41] Speaker C: Like, what's the average rake on a horror film? Like any standalone horror film, what's the budget to bring and then the amount it makes? What's that number? It's probably about five times, I'm guessing. I think this is. And that's the thing about horror films. You can make them pretty cheap and you're guaranteed a pretty decent return on them. It's just kind of a, you know, a standard. And. And this film has merit. And they tried things. I just. I felt execution was really poor. Writing in this was really bad, and the acting didn't cover any ground for me at all. [00:32:18] Speaker A: Yeah, I think also, like, Blumhouse Studio is. They. They crank. That's what they do. They just crank out, like, horror movies. Right? Like, that's what they do. So I think they invest if they're a return. And sure, there might have been a return on this, but because it got such horrible reviews and people were upset about it, I'm guessing they were thinking, the next one. [00:32:41] Speaker B: The next one's gonna make less, so it's not. [00:32:43] Speaker A: Not worth the risk at that point and just pump out another new story, you know, down the line. [00:32:50] Speaker B: The one thing I really did wish we did get in this movie, and I don't need a sequel. I just would have been fun in this one. Sure. One of the ghosts coming forward should have been Ethan Hunt, Ethan Hawke's daughter. And then we should have seen that home video. [00:33:03] Speaker C: Absolutely. Absolutely. That would have been a great. Yeah. And what do we have, like, seven or eight films? And I kept seeing the kids come out. They're like, just one more. Just one more. Like, it was always one more. And I was like, when are we gonna get to the last one already? [00:33:21] Speaker B: Yeah, I. They didn't make it clear that they were waiting. Oh, no, they were waiting for something because they had to wait for them to move. So they were just postponing until they moved houses. [00:33:30] Speaker C: Oh, is that it? Okay. [00:33:31] Speaker B: They can't kill them until they switch houses, which is why Deputy so and so was trying to keep them in the house in the first place. Which was also something I thought was kind of a fun, like. Because she's like, I have to get out of here. And he's just like, no. Like, that is the last thing you need to do. Which we know because of the first movies, which is kind of fun. So I guess that was the point was they had to just, like, keep the kids on a foot line, like, keep them interested until it got to that point. But, yeah, like, there's got to be a line of. Yeah, there's gotta be a line of how many they can do before they're just like, all right, we're out. Like, sorry, there's Only been so many Bagel movies. [00:34:08] Speaker A: So now we know they have to move to a new location. And that's how Bagels in these weird demonic rules of weirdness. [00:34:19] Speaker C: Yeah, because Bagel was actually a real estate agent in a past life, I guess. [00:34:23] Speaker A: Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That allows him to actually consume these families, and then the next people that move in and move out then become the next victim. So with so and so burning down these houses, is he actually able to end the cycle? Is that a possibility? [00:34:44] Speaker B: What I. What we don't really get enough of is I guess in my brain, this is working kind of like, you know, a bee out of flower. Right. Like, they kind of go and get pollinated and then spread it accidentally as they move across. So when Bagel takes over a house and the family moves, he kills them in the new house, and then that becomes two places that people can move into and spread out, and it will just get bigger and bigger and bigger exponentially. Okay, if that's not the case and you can only do it at the new house, that's weird. But. [00:35:12] Speaker A: Okay, well, the whole thing's pretty weird. [00:35:14] Speaker B: Well, no, for sure, for sure, for sure. But if he's taking. If he can only do it at the newest house, then burning the houses down doesn't really matter. He only needs to burn down whatever the newest house is. [00:35:22] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:35:23] Speaker B: So theoretically, it should already be done when he burned down Ethan Hawkes's house. Right, right. So that should be the end of Bagel. So it must be working the way I said it first, where he can. Like if he. If he kills at the new house, and that's two houses he can spread from. So theoretically, yes, you should be able to burn down enough houses. Unless that you can't. But maybe Bagel is faster. [00:35:43] Speaker A: So maybe it is the property lines. Maybe he is a realtor and they build a new house on that same property, he can consume those families. [00:35:52] Speaker B: That's fair. That's fair. We'll never know. I guess. The mystery of Bagel is on. [00:36:00] Speaker A: Oh, my goodness. It was Bagel scary in this. Is Bagel scary in any of these movies? [00:36:06] Speaker B: No, no. I still like the design, but he doesn't do anything. He didn't. The only thing he did is put his hand on the kid's shoulder at one point. [00:36:14] Speaker A: Yeah. And he's walking. [00:36:15] Speaker B: Oh, and jump scare you right before the credits. [00:36:17] Speaker C: Yeah, try to jump scare you. That was the thing. [00:36:20] Speaker B: I rolled my eyes so hard when that happened. I could just feel Will's hatred from, like four provinces away. [00:36:27] Speaker C: So Dan. Over the last 20 years, the average production cost, excluding marketing for horror movies, and this is only theatrical releases, is about 22 million. So it's the average costs about 22 million to make a horror movie and the ticket sales minus the production budget. So profit, I guess you could say, would be 70 million. So 90 million total would be like. So the profit, 70 million. So you make a horror movie for 20 million and you come out with 70 million profit. It's not a huge win for these companies, but it's almost a guarantee. So that's why they. They kind of pump these things out. And if you have one where, like Will said, last time somebody said it was the scariest movie ever, they've got to make a sequel, right? So that's why we ended up with Sinister 2. [00:37:14] Speaker A: We did end up with Sinister 2. [00:37:21] Speaker B: I. I don't. I didn't think the first one was anywhere close to the scariest movie ever. This one, I don't think is scary at all. [00:37:28] Speaker C: This one wasn't scary at all for me. No. [00:37:31] Speaker B: I do remember the one time I, like, jumped is when he's in the church and he's seeing, like, the goat, the shadows of the ghost, which I actually thought was kind of a cool effect. And then at the very end, bagels there. And you're right, it was just. He was just loud. Like, he was just loud and in your face more so than it was like. Yeah, a super scary moment. But that was the one time I was like, oh, God. Okay. [00:37:50] Speaker C: Yeah, it was a little weird because a lot of the snuff films, some I felt were scarier or creepier than others. And then the one that they were kind of building up was the one in the church, which. The rat in a pan thing, I've seen it before, so it wasn't really that big a deal to me. It didn't seem that scary. They did show the rat actually chewing all the way through the body, which was kind of cool, I guess, but it wasn't the big kind of finale snuff film I was expecting. And I was already having a hard time with so many such extravagant, such long snuff films that weren't that good in the first place. And then the kid's like, I'm gonna make the best one ever. He's burning people on a cross. Which didn't feel that original, didn't seem that exciting. I just watched, you know, Evil Dead burn. So burning people in this movie was terrible by comparison. And it just. None of the snuff films did it for me. And that was the saving grace of the previous film. Yeah. [00:38:55] Speaker B: And that's where I'm like, some things got better, some things got worse. But, like, overall, it's pretty much the same for me anyways. Do you guys ready to write this? [00:39:02] Speaker C: Yeah, let's do it. [00:39:03] Speaker A: Let's do it. [00:39:04] Speaker B: If you like what we do and you want to help support us, consider joining our Patreon. There's a link down below. Thank you to our producers as well as our executive producer, Dino. And a huge shout out to our writers, Mrs. Hillary Real, Bubba, Hotep and Windstorm114. Thank you all so much. [00:39:21] Speaker C: I tell you what, you really gotta like the first one to want to go see Sinister 2. This movie comes in at a 42. For me, I think it pretty much failed on every attempt to recreate whatever magic its predecessor had. And the few things that I was optimistic for just petered out in this film. [00:39:43] Speaker B: I'm actually gonna go the opposite direction. I didn't like the first movie at all. You kind of do have to watch it to get what's going on in this one. I think it explains things through the course of that movie more than this movie explains. It kind of. It assumes you've seen it, which you probably should have. That being said, I could actually see what was going on in this movie, which is a huge plus for me. I liked the characters more. I enjoyed the story between Ex Deputy so and so and Courtney. There were some very flat moments. The horror is just not there. I would have actually preferred if they removed the horror entirely and just made this a drama. Like that would have been more up what I was looking for in this one. But I can't say that I was really bored during this movie because I was kind of invested on those characters. Does it work as a horror movie? It absolutely does not. Did I have a decent time? Sure. But like, when I'm saying I had a good time, like this was a guilty pleasure. Even as I was watching it, I knew this was not a good film. But I liked it more than the first one. And I could see what was going on, which I just didn't get a hammer till the day I die. It's not a huge improvement. It's not much of an improvement. The parts that I liked in the first movie got worse. The parts that I didn't like got better. It's about a 52. It's better. It was okay. It's not good. [00:40:53] Speaker A: My major problem with this franchise as a whole is the bagel man has too much paperwork to kill his victims. It's just way too complex for what it needs to be in most cases. When it comes to horror movies, I find the simpler, the better. Think of things like it follows, you know, you just know what's going on. You don't have to think too much about it. You can set up some good scares along the way. Speaking of scares, this throws in just like the first one, endless horror movie cliches that again just fall flat. Uninspired, unoriginal. So I didn't like either of these movies. I think they're both hogwash. And this one gets a 36 out of me. And so. And so was so. So I guess. [00:41:41] Speaker B: And with that, we see Sinister drop a few points down to 50. Just below Greenland, but still above Anchorman. I have it at 50. Brian has it at 55. Will has the lowest with 44. What do you guys think about this final resting place for Sinister? [00:41:57] Speaker C: I'm okay with this. I'm okay with this. I, I do like the franchise better than the Anchorman. It's. You know, these franchise ratings are so tough because you always have a good movie that starts off a franchise or most of the time you do. Not so sure about Sinister, but, but like, because like Donnie Darko, the original movie or Never Ending Story, the, the first movie, you know, they're, they're good. You know, they're, they're way better than Sinister. But as a franchise, as a franchise, yeah, I think it sits right where it needs to. [00:42:30] Speaker B: Yeah, there's not a lot. [00:42:31] Speaker A: We don't have a whole lot of horror movies on here. I mean, Evil Dead is more of a splat stick, although I think we're going to divide that out so it'll be more one. The newer ones are more horror leaning and the older ones are more of that splat stick comedy, horror, evil, 28 days later, you know, which are all both up there compared to this, which is fine by me. I just. [00:42:54] Speaker B: You could argue like Alien is a horror movie. [00:42:58] Speaker A: Yeah, I wouldn't say that. But yes, you could argue. [00:43:01] Speaker B: You wouldn't say Alien is a horror movie. I'm not saying the franchise. [00:43:03] Speaker C: I would say, yeah, Alien is a horror movie. The franchise is definitely not agree. [00:43:08] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree with that. I'm not fighting for the whole franchise, [00:43:09] Speaker A: but no, I, I agree with that. It was built as a horror movie or monster movie, which falls into that category for sure. But yeah, as a whole, not so much. The second one radically changed that. [00:43:22] Speaker B: No, it becomes an action movie and eventually almost a think piece at one point but no. Yeah the first movie I would, I would say is horror. [00:43:28] Speaker A: Yeah I guess there is a few horror movies in here. I guess we go hard in October [00:43:32] Speaker C: so I like the conjuring, you know. [00:43:34] Speaker A: Yeah and it. [00:43:35] Speaker B: Yeah conjuring it sinister 28 days. [00:43:39] Speaker A: Yeah there's a couple I think all deserve Evil Dead higher than this. [00:43:45] Speaker B: All right, well that's our rating of sinister 2 but what's yours? Leave a comment down below. I'd love to hear what you have to say about this one. We record this every Thursday night at 9:00pm Eastern Standard Time over at Twitch TV themongoolishow. So if you want to head over there and hang out with us live you can over there and hit the follow button or if you enjoyed this video you made it to this far ended probably did. Make sure you hit like and subscribe so we see you in the next one.