Ep 107 - Sinister (2012)

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Ellison Oswalt, a crime writer who is desperate for inspiration for a new book, comes across an unsolved murder. He hopes to bring him back into the limelight. Unfortunately, Ellison's 15 minutes of fame might be up. [00:00:22] Speaker B: Completely overrated. [00:00:24] Speaker C: Hello, everybody, and welcome back to our rating the show where we get together with two of my friends, we discuss a movie franchise, break it down by film, give an overall score and throw it back up on the board to see where it lands compared to that movie franchises. This week we're talking about Sinister from 2012. And I'm joined, as always, by Brian and Will. Will, how are you doing this week? [00:00:41] Speaker A: Doing a. [00:00:42] Speaker B: Okay. [00:00:44] Speaker A: Yeah, just living life, living the dream. It's Thanksgiving weekend coming up, so looking forward to that. [00:00:49] Speaker C: That's true for us Canadians. It is going to be a long weekend this weekend, which I'm looking forward to. How are you doing, Brian, down in Texas? [00:00:55] Speaker B: I'm doing okay. It was a busy day. Nothing special. Nothing? Nothing. Amazing. I'm curious though, Dana. It looks like maybe Mr. Boogie got to your stud. What's going on? [00:01:04] Speaker C: Oh, I just felt appropriate for this movie that's entirely filmed in the dark, that we would also do the writing in the dark. But I guess, yeah, we can turn some lights on and [00:01:13] Speaker A: show them how it's done. [00:01:16] Speaker B: Oh, look at that. We can see what's happening. [00:01:17] Speaker C: We can actually see what's happening. What a concept. Will, is this your first time seeing Sinister? [00:01:25] Speaker A: It is my first time visiting this franchise, yes. [00:01:31] Speaker C: And Brian, for you. [00:01:33] Speaker B: Yeah, I had thought I'd seen Sinister, but I haven't. I just recognized it from, you know, advertising and stuff and knew it was a somewhat popular scary movie, but I hadn't seen it. So it was nice to go through and see it for the first time. I did not have the lighting issue that you guys had with the film. It was definitely dark. And I remember people mentioning things in the watch party talking about, isn't it the middle of the day and he's walking through his house and things? But it didn't bother me so much. But Dan, it seems like you and both Will had an issue with that. [00:02:06] Speaker C: It was just an interesting choice for the director to make. It must have been a choice for. For some of the scenery and things that were going on. Right. It was not just a matter of, like, this movie had a small budget, but a decent enough budget and they could afford lighting. I assume they can afford open windows. Like, it was literally filmed during the middle of the day in certain scenes, and yet somehow his house was completely pitch black. There's one point where he's. I want to say he's ordering a pizza, but maybe he was talking to the sheriff or something. But they open the front door and you can see daylight inside, but you can't see any of their faces or anything because there's so much glare coming at you from the light from the other side. And it's like, run. You mentioned this, like, last week or maybe the week before that where, like, you're kind of sick of getting directors this, like, okay, you're allowed to make whatever artistic choices you want, and we'll just have to go with them because you're the artiste. That's kind of how I felt about this one. It's like, you can call it an artistic choice, but if I can't see your film, that's an issue. Like, it is a visual medium, and [00:03:02] Speaker B: I didn't take it a step further. So there's. There's doing something on purpose and it's not something I like. And then there's doing something on purpose and doing a poor job of it. Like, if your lighting crew sucks, it doesn't matter what angle you're, you know, point in the camera, you're doing a bad job of lighting the film. For me, it wasn't too bad. It was noticeable, but not. It didn't take away from the film for me, but I would prefer a better lit film where I can see things. [00:03:35] Speaker C: I will say, I really do think this was a choice from the director. I don't think this is a matter of poor lighting or poor cinematography. Although I will ding it for its cinematography later on. I think this was a choice they made because it is such dark subject matter and because you do want to have the jump scares hidden in the background that I think they were going for the look they went for, and I think they achieved what they were hoping for. It just really did not work for me. That one aspect at least. This was also, for the record, my first time seeing this one, I was getting this one confused with Insidious. So anytime somebody asked me, I'd be like, I think I've seen that before. I. I definitely have not. I've definitely not seen this one before. As a first time reviewing it, it. And I gotta say, like, as much as I'm saying this movie is very dark. Cinema, cinema, cinema from cinematography. It's also an incredibly dark storyline for a movie. Like, the movie opens up with what appears to be a snuff film of a family of four slowly and Dramatically getting hung and not in the normal, you know, break their neck way, but in a. We're gonna raise you up until you can't breathe anymore, which will take a couple of, you know, a good minute or two. Like, it's. Yeah, it's pretty dark. And that is like the first thing you see before credits, before names, before any actors. It is just like, oh, by the way, here's a snuff film. And you see a lot of snuff in this movie. It's. [00:04:54] Speaker A: It was. [00:04:55] Speaker B: And that opening sequence is in broad daylight, which is stark contrast to the rest of the film. [00:05:00] Speaker C: No, agreed. Like that. Like, I'm not going to say that every frame of this was really dark. There were some daylight scenes where you could tell exactly what was going on, that being one of them from for sure. And it was just this, like, really eerie tone to start the movie off on, which, I mean, as a horror film, that's. That's what you want. [00:05:15] Speaker B: Yeah. Yep. Gave me goosebumps to start it off. So I started this movie off on the right foot. Definitely got my attention. [00:05:22] Speaker C: Yeah. And there's a couple again, like, four or five different snuff films throughout the movie. And everyone had the exact effect they were going for where you were just like, you're on edge, you're feeling uncomfortable. Sorry, I'll speak for myself. I was on edge. I was feeling uncomfortable. I had goosebumps. And me and my wife were just like, this is not the fun romp. I was anticipating it being like, this is actually legitimately dark. [00:05:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:05:44] Speaker C: Did you guys feel the same way or how did you. How did you feel about Snuffy? [00:05:49] Speaker B: Definitely. Definitely felt like while I was watching a snuff film, it was. It was dark and sinister. I mean, that's. That's the title of the movie. And so it definitely gave me the heebie jeebies and. Well, I don't want to get into it yet. We'll get to what we thought was going on later. I want to hear what Will has to say about it. [00:06:08] Speaker A: I would say the snuff Super 8 video footage, kind of found footage, home video style. How weird it was. Whatever, it's fine. It was probably the best part of the movie for me was the snuff films because it was the only thing that I really thought was dark and sinister and actually kind of scary. I didn't find the rest of the movie scary at all. And. And when they veered off of, like, this true crime angle into demonology and stuff, but didn't really Give us enough backstory. It. I really was lost in this movie. It just pulled me right out because it just. Well, I didn't understand a lot of the choices they made. [00:06:53] Speaker C: Just to be honest, I didn't mind the demonology aspect of it. And I actually, like, anytime you're going to put Vincent d' Onofrio in a movie, I'm going to be that much more excited for said film. So that was a nice little cameo that I was not anticipating. And they don't spoilers, they don't kill him, so he could be in the second movie. Fingers crossed. I haven't looked ahead. So, like that, that port didn't bother me because I think I was anticipating it being a supernatural possession film. So I was just kind of like when we saw the Super 8, I was like, oh, that's interesting. I thought there's gonna be this. And then it turned out it was that. That being said, I agree with you that there are certain choices in this film that we'll get to in a minute. That did not make sense for me. And I was kind of like, wait, what are we. What's happening right now? Like, why, why did that just happen? But overall, I didn't mind the fact that there was possession going on or like the symbology that they were looking into or symbols they were looking into or calling Vincent. Like, all that worked for me pretty well. [00:07:54] Speaker A: I'm not against any of that either. It's just that it kind of set up a cool true crime thing and then gave us a half ass demon thing. So I, I just didn't feel like it connected properly or they didn't. It wasn't written well enough to be like, oh, but this is actually what's happening and let's get invested in it. They were just like, oh, this is what's happening now. The movie's over. [00:08:18] Speaker C: That, that's. I will get to that, but that is exactly how I feel about this movie. It's just sort of like ends and you're like, oh, yeah, okay. But like the serial killer aspect of that, if that had actually been a serial killer and we went more Silence of the Lambs and less possession. I think you're right. Like, I was expecting possession, but that would have been a lot cooler. [00:08:37] Speaker A: Yeah, that was, that was my mind. But what about you, Brian? [00:08:40] Speaker B: Okay, so this is, this is the kind of the thing I was trying to get to by the second snuff film that I had watched. I knew it was the little kids doing it. Like, it just seemed like they Wanted us to know that. And they even talked about it, how the killer was using methods that an older person could do because they thought they were, like, 75 years old at the end of it. And I was like, no, it's the little kids. Obviously, they're being possessed. Like, it was just so obvious to me. And then at the end of the film, it's like the big reveal. And I was very confused because I didn't think it was supposed to be a big reveal. And I kept not understanding why the characters weren't kind of figuring it out, or I guess they just didn't want to believe it is what I was going along with, you know? And then they see the film at the end that shows the little kids. And I was like, yeah, duh. And so for me, this was a possession film right from the jump. Like, it just. That's just what it felt like to me. And. And it was interesting how all the characters in the movie were approaching it as a true crime until final. They figure it out at the end. And so I kind of enjoyed it, but I felt like I was privy to more information than the characters had. And I thought that's what. I thought that was intentional. But I'm realizing a lot of people didn't get that effect. [00:10:05] Speaker C: I will point out I. I did get that it was possession very early on. But the way those snuff films are done and the way the story is going in. In the story, you're supposed to think that it is a serial killer, right? And, like, so that's where I'm like, oh, that would have been really interesting to have seen and watched. But as I mentioned, like, I kind of walked into this assuming it was possession and demonic and. And. And such. [00:10:27] Speaker B: Yeah, [00:10:30] Speaker C: yeah, I. I agree with you, though. Like, it did feel very. Like maybe not the tree trunk. Like, in a very opening scene, I was like, wow, a kid did that. But pretty quickly after that, especially when they're like, oh, you know, one kid's missing from each situation. I'm like, oh, well, they probably right, that. [00:10:43] Speaker B: That's when I piece it together. Originally, the opening sequence, you see the saw cutting the limb, and then the saw flies down. I couldn't see it well enough. And I thought that saw was, like, floating in midair, but it was actually the girl was behind the tree, and [00:10:59] Speaker A: you couldn't see her part of her clothing behind the trunk a little bit. [00:11:02] Speaker B: Okay. And I didn't see that. So I thought it was like this ghostly apparition that killed the first people and then when they talked about the little kids were always missing from it, I was like, oh, okay. It's like the ghost of the kid or the possession of the kid or something. Right. And that just all clicked for me, and, I don't know, it seemed interesting. Like I said, it felt like I was privy to information that the characters weren't. And so I was watching them saying, you know, go out the front door, not up the stairs. What are you doing? You know, and that's kind of fun in scary movies, but I don't think that that was maybe intentionally how it was supposed to play out to me, the viewer. [00:11:36] Speaker A: Right. [00:11:36] Speaker C: Yeah. Another thing that I was hoping for that never came because, again, I feel like there was. I was waiting for a twist that wasn't there. And the movie just ends, what felt like very abruptly to me. The deputy. Because we never hear the deputy's last name, so it's always Deputy so and so. [00:11:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:54] Speaker C: I was wondering if he was gonna be one of the kids grown up. I was like, oh, that would be interesting. If he's. [00:11:59] Speaker B: That'd be cool. [00:12:00] Speaker C: Kind of helping the serial killer or continuing the serial killer's legacy or something. And it was just. No, we just never. He just doesn't deserve a last name. [00:12:08] Speaker B: Yeah. They really played him, like, a total. Even though he came through with some very good information by the end of it. [00:12:15] Speaker C: Right. Yeah. The sheriff is supposed to be, like, the guy in charge. You barely see him at all. And the deputies. This idiot who wants a signature. And sure. That he's actually incredibly helpful. It was just. It was just interesting. [00:12:26] Speaker B: Yeah, I. I think the. [00:12:27] Speaker A: The reason that was played out that way is because you want to have these suspect lists. You know, the sheriff is kind of shady. Get out of my town. The deputy is kind of, like, inept, but kind of creepy in some way too. Like, he just says some weird things. So I think it's like, oh, there's all this, like, the sheriff says, literally at the start of the movie. I'm pretty sure he's like, you'll never solve this. It's unsolvable. I'm just like, what? What? Why? There's all this evidence right in the attic that nobody looked for. Like, I doesn't make any sense. Which is why it very easily skews towards the demon possession, eating children thing. But I. I think they tried to, like, send the audience one way, but didn't do a great job of it and then send them the right way. And then the twist at the end to me was if you leave the house, you die because it's got to be the next location where he can kill you. Which, again, why. What. Where is the. Why is that a rule? I mean, it doesn't make any sense. Like, this guy's photobombing himself in home videos. Who cares? It's so dumb to me. [00:13:38] Speaker C: So here's the thing that maybe I got wrong, but I'm pretty sure when he's talking to Vincent d', Onofrio, Vincent d' Onofrio is telling him that, like, it's all about possession. And if you can see the. The pictures and the photos, then you're likely to get possessed. But kids are more susceptible to it. Did the daughter ever. [00:13:55] Speaker A: The children or something? [00:13:56] Speaker C: Well, he's. The demon's gonna eat the child after he possesses them and they kill their [00:14:00] Speaker A: family he feeds off. [00:14:01] Speaker C: But, like, did the daughter ever see the imagery? Like, it. It felt like Vincent d' Onofrio was setting up that the kid needs to see the imagery to become possessed. But, like, the entire movie, you know, his door is locked and the kids aren't going in his office. It just felt like a weird. Like, wait a second. I feel like you just set up a rule there and then ignored it instantly so that you could get this twist that doesn't surprise anybody. Like, it just was one of those weird. Like, I don't. I don't understand what just happened. [00:14:26] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't know if the kid has to watch it. I think somebody in the house has to be exposed to it. So the dad. [00:14:32] Speaker C: So if anybody's exposed. [00:14:33] Speaker A: I think so. [00:14:34] Speaker B: But I, again, I would go with the dad. The dad. Anybody in the house can be exposed to it. Because I felt as he continued to watch more and more of those videos, the apparitions, appearances became more prevalent. The. The. The ghost was more weird, happened as he watched the videos. And so I felt like it was. Anybody can watch him and it will curse the family. [00:14:59] Speaker A: Right. [00:15:00] Speaker C: Okay. Like, that. That makes sense for what we saw. So if that is the explanation, then so be it. I. I thought he sort of lead. Led it towards, you know, the kids need to be possessed by seeing imagery. But, like. [00:15:10] Speaker A: Right. [00:15:11] Speaker C: Yeah, so be it. Whatever. [00:15:12] Speaker B: And maybe they'll round some of these edges for us when we watch the sequel. Maybe they'll kind of hone in on it and see what they can do. Sequels almost never do that, unfortunately. It would be really nice if they. If they would do some world buffering on this. I think it would be very helpful because we have some Gray areas where we're not sure if it was sloppy directing or if it was intentional, but they didn't pull it off. But it doesn't exactly make sense to the viewers. And that's a bad thing. You should have people coming out going, I thought this, and it was this. And it was obvious, you know, the whole time. You know, like we. We were supposed to have a head fake and we were not supposed to figure it out or whatever. [00:15:53] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:15:53] Speaker B: And in this one, we got a variety of people having a variety of different ideas, and none of us are really sure what the rules are. And that's chaotic and that's not good. [00:16:02] Speaker C: It almost would have been a bigger twist if it had turned out to be Ethan Hawke being possessed. I mean, at some point he pulled a mask out and he's the killer. I would have expected that. Less than the kid. Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah, it was one of those weird things where, like, he gets the phone call at the very end of the movie. Like, after they have lived in the one house, they move into the. The previous victim's house. He's writing the story, gets freaked out enough that they move back to their old house because they own both houses at the same time. And then, like, their first night in the new house, he gets the phone call from the deputy is like, oh, every single one of these people lived in two houses. Like, they. They all came of. Moved from the victim's house to a new house and then got killed and kind of carried on this chain. And that's when Ethan Hawk gets drugged and his daughter kills him. And you're just like, I don't know, I just wanted it. It felt like he was building up the entire movie to something. And then that was such an unsatisfying payoff. [00:17:00] Speaker A: Very sinister ending, leaving the audience wanting. [00:17:06] Speaker C: I don't know about you, I. I never, like, even in the scenes where, like, he's looking to the attic with all the kids in the attic, I never felt like he was in danger, like, playing with him, but it never felt like he was in danger. And then they're just dead. Like, you'd think there'd be, like a chase scene or something at the end where they're, like, panicky and like, oh, my God, something's about to happen. And instead they just. Just. They're just dead. And you're like, yeah. Oh, okay. [00:17:32] Speaker A: To be fair, that was all the snuff films, though. They were all just. They're just dead. [00:17:37] Speaker B: Yep. You're not wrong. [00:17:39] Speaker C: But that does. So the snuff films make for a really creepy vibe for this film. But that doesn't necessarily make for a very satisfying film. [00:17:49] Speaker B: Right. The snuff films. The snuff films are what carries this film. They set the atmosphere, the tone. It's shocking, it's scary. When you find out it's little children committing the murders, that's even more sinister. Right. And then you get to the end. I didn't have as big a problem with the end other than it kind of went quick. And I would have liked to actually see a little bit more of how they died because they just end scene and you find out that she chopped him up into pieces. I would have liked if they wouldn't have pulled any punches there and gave us at least a couple of ax chops, a little blood splashing up on the girl's face or something. Right. You don't have to show her actually connecting with a body, but it would have been cool to see her swing the ax over her head and come down on her father's neck. Not showing her father, but just showing the blood splatter back up on her face. That would have been really intense and really creepy. They didn't. They just ended the scene and we find out that they're all chopped up and that wasn't nearly as much fun. Nonetheless. Yeah, yeah. [00:18:57] Speaker C: I'm surprised we didn't even see the, the, the found footage of them like of Mr. Boogie videotaping the Ethan Hawks family getting murdered. Even that would have been something. Sorry. [00:19:07] Speaker A: Well, go ahead. No, no, no, no worries. I think the reason why you don't see any of the blood and gore of the chop up scene is originally they tried to not go for an R rating in this movie, but the found footage snuff film shots were too scary anyway, so that's when it got rated. But I believe they held back on a lot of language and violence, gore specifically to avoid an R rating. But they got hit with it anyway. [00:19:35] Speaker B: I, I wish they would have just pushed for the hard R. I think this movie warrants it and I think it would have been a little bit better. Just they don't need to go much further because of the content. Right. Kids. Kids in snuff films is already. [00:19:48] Speaker C: Yeah, top tier, super creepy. [00:19:50] Speaker B: Right. But because they pulled a few punches in the film, it, it was really to its detriment overall. [00:19:57] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:19:58] Speaker A: Now, okay, you said kids and snuff films. What did you mean by that? Did you mean the kids dying in the films? [00:20:05] Speaker B: No, I mean, I mean you finding out that the kids Were doing the killing in the snuff films, which was really. That was pretty horrifying. [00:20:12] Speaker A: I really. I really did not think the kids were scary in this movie at all. [00:20:17] Speaker B: No, the kids weren't scary. The idea of them committing those murders, that was it. No, those scary kids in the attic, Forget that. That was stupid. That looked like something out of like a remake of Lord of the Flies or something. It was just really lame. I was like, well, what is this? [00:20:31] Speaker C: Like, the attic wasn't as bad for me. But when he's walking around his house in the pitch black, which, I mean any scene in the movie, anytime, but specifically in that one where, like the kids are in the background but, like you can see them kind of like dart into other rooms. [00:20:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:46] Speaker C: Was so painful for me. It was like if you did, like. Because at one point his head is covering the screen and his head moves and there's just a kid there. If his head had just moved back and then moved and she's not there anymore, that would have been way scarier for me. [00:20:58] Speaker A: Yes. [00:20:58] Speaker C: Than watching her, like, duck into a room. [00:21:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:06] Speaker C: But it was such a, like, amateur performance. I'm not ragging on the kids, but it just looked like something I'd expect to see in like a high school performance of a scary. [00:21:15] Speaker B: I wouldn't even blame the kids on this. It was. It was a weird way to do it. It was almost like they added them in with a green screen or something. Because there were times when Ethan should have seen them out of the corner of his eye and he didn't. And I think that they were just. They were trying to like, showcase with that slow motion that they were like ghosts moving. And even if he did turn around, he wouldn't see them. And we were seeing them, but not him or something. I don't know. Again, we don't know what was trying to be shown to us, which is a failing in a horror movie, in any movie. And yeah, so I didn't. I definitely did not like the slow motion ghost children. That was stupid. [00:21:50] Speaker C: Now, there was one scene, I think, right before the slow motion ghost kid scene where he's in his office or somewhere and all of a sudden a little girl's face is like, right here. Like it's right beside him. He doesn't notice that either though, right? [00:22:04] Speaker A: I don't know. [00:22:04] Speaker C: Like, that's a jump scare for the audience, but he's not reacting to that. [00:22:08] Speaker B: Yeah, it was really weird. [00:22:09] Speaker A: I hated that they broke the fourth wall multiple times in this movie. Specifically the last Shot of the movie when it. You see, like, the stupid box of films, home movies left in the attic. And then Mr. Boogie just, like, sticks his head into the frame in the last frame. I'm just like, what is this? Like, this is such amateur jump scares. Breaking the fourth wall, just ruining any integrity that you have in this movie. It didn't make any sense to me, and I felt like all. Almost all of the jump scares were forced into this movie. I wasn't at one minute, one second, surprised by anything jumping out in this movie. [00:22:49] Speaker B: Yeah, none of the. None of the jump scares got me. [00:22:52] Speaker C: I think so. Okay, so a lot of the times I wouldn't say the jump scares got me, but I could tell my skin was crawling. Like, you get that feeling where you're like, the hair is risen or you got goosebumps, stuff like that. Like, I had that feeling multiple times, especially during, like, these snuff films. [00:23:08] Speaker A: The. [00:23:09] Speaker C: The one jump scare that I think did get me is when he's looking out of the backyard, and all of a sudden there's, like, a flash of lightning in the sinister face in the. The. In the shrubbery foliage. Yeah, whatever that was. I feel like that one made me kind of like, jump a little bit. By the way, outrun. The audience is all calling you out for saying that you jumped during the. With the watch. [00:23:30] Speaker B: Did I? [00:23:30] Speaker C: So, you know, they say I jumped [00:23:32] Speaker B: three times in the watch party. I don't. Oh, okay, maybe I did. I don't remember. I remember just getting the creepy sk. Of all those different shots. The one that didn't do it for me at all was when Mr. Boogie was in a still frame of a video in the background and moves on the computer screen to look at even Hawke's character and then goes back. Like, that was just dumb. I was like, pick a lane. [00:23:57] Speaker A: Just. [00:23:57] Speaker B: Just whatever. [00:23:59] Speaker C: So that one was one where, like, again, it's just got, like, a little bit of creep factor. Like, it wasn't a jump scare, like, but, like, you can. It's something that's not supposed to happen. So, like, yeah, the back of my hair grows up. But it's one of those ones where it's like, I expected that, like, five minutes before it happened. And then I kind of was like, I guess they're not gonna do that. [00:24:16] Speaker A: And then. [00:24:16] Speaker C: Oh, it is. Okay, okay. [00:24:17] Speaker B: Chat's right. I remember the lawnmower scene. Got me. But that was one of the snuff films again. The snuff films carried this movie. Everything about those snuff films was great. They should have hired the director of those films instead of this director, I think, because those really got. But when. When the guy's pushing the lawnmower and you can. It's in the dark, in the rain, you can't see anything. And then all of a sudden he goes over somebody's face out of nowhere. That one got me. And it was somebody being run over with a lawnmower. Like, that is horrifying, right? So it hit me both ways. That one definitely got me. [00:24:52] Speaker C: So funnily enough, I was sitting next to my wife and I'm like, what are they gonna do? Run over somebody? And then I still jumped when they did it because it was such a loud noise and like a thing like, oh, God, okay. And you're right. That's one of those ones where I'm like, okay, drowning sucks. Burning to death sucks. All that. But like the lawnmower one, I'm like, oh, yeah. [00:25:08] Speaker A: Do you think though, you could take out a whole family with one lawnmower, [00:25:13] Speaker C: you'd be able to do enough damage? They die of their wounds probably. [00:25:16] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't think so. [00:25:17] Speaker C: I think, oh, that would be a tougher one for a child to do. [00:25:20] Speaker A: 100. A child getting over those bodies and I think, I don't know, wouldn't keep up, dude. [00:25:26] Speaker B: Like a 290 Honda, self propelled. You could probably get some work done. [00:25:30] Speaker A: Did you see that lawnmower? That thing maybe? [00:25:33] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, he was he using a Craftsman or something? It was terrible. [00:25:36] Speaker C: Get your inner Hankillo. [00:25:38] Speaker B: Get that kid a zero turn. That's what they need, man. [00:25:42] Speaker C: Yeah. Then I believe a kid could do it. Although I don't know that zero turns existed in 78, but whatever. [00:25:47] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. [00:25:48] Speaker B: That's true. [00:25:50] Speaker A: Oh, my goodness. So here's something I found interesting and kind of surprising, and I'm going to chalk it up to a PR stunt, really. Apparently in 2020, Forbes magazine conducted a study Science of Scare project, where they had a bunch of people watch a bunch of scary movies. And this movie had everybody's heart rate up the most during the film. So they deemed it like one of the scariest movies ever made. Which I couldn't believe reading that. After I watched this movie, I was like, what is like, there is again, the snuff films are like, gross and like, not scary per se, but, like, give you a. A bad feeling. But I don't think my. If anything, I was falling asleep watching this movie. I really. [00:26:42] Speaker C: My wife fell asleep to this movie. [00:26:45] Speaker A: Your wife is good people. I. I don't say that enough. [00:26:48] Speaker C: I'll let her know. I, I could see this movie being more disturbing than scary. So I like, yeah. A heart rate being up because you're like, I can't believe I'm watching this because like the snuff films really do look pretty realistic and I do appreciate that. Like right before they slot slit the throat of the young kid, he looked away and so it blurred in the background. It's kind of like, okay, cool. Like I, I knew it was. [00:27:10] Speaker B: I kind of appreciate that too. Yeah, yeah. [00:27:13] Speaker C: But like, I wouldn't say that I was terrified during this. I've seen much scarier films, but this was disturbing and it definitely did kind of raise the hair on the back of my neck. So like it did what it was going for. Even though it's not one that was like exciting or you know, re. Watchable. [00:27:30] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean I would put like Paranormal Activity above this for scary movies. Yeah. You know there's going to be jump scares in that. But like they set them up and execute them much better than this. They're not like just, oh, here. [00:27:46] Speaker B: And in Paranormal Activity you have a true sense of danger the whole time. This movie didn't have that sense of danger. [00:27:52] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know. I don't know. I, I haven't as one that comes to mind that I was like, oh, that's scarier to me than this ever would be. [00:28:02] Speaker C: I've never seen the paranormal activities movies, but my understanding of what those are and the way that I watch movies, I could see myself getting freaked out by those because I would put myself in their situation and because those are paid to be like found footage. Like, like a real. This actually happened. Whereas this is so obviously a story. I can see myself getting far more invested. Even though I know it's a Hollywood made film. Like, I know it's not real, but I can see myself getting more into it. So I could see that being far scarier for me personally than this one was. I would say this was pretty high on the creep factor, but yeah, not, not a whole lot of scare. [00:28:37] Speaker A: Agreed. Yeah. So I just thought it was like an odd study that was performed and I feel like it was just like. But it was in 2020. When did this movie come out? 2012. [00:28:46] Speaker B: 2012. Yeah. [00:28:47] Speaker A: How did this movie even come in the top 10? I just don't, I don't understand how that list was made. So maybe you can't trust science. [00:28:59] Speaker C: You heard it here first, folks. Don't trust science. Yeah. Will the flat Earther. [00:29:04] Speaker A: How. [00:29:05] Speaker B: How did you guys feel about the characters, specifically the husband and wife? Their. Their arc, their dynamic? How oblivious some of the characters in this film. [00:29:15] Speaker C: All. [00:29:16] Speaker B: All the char points where they were completely oblivious to the obvious. [00:29:21] Speaker C: The wife, for all intents and purposes, was not a character in this movie. [00:29:25] Speaker B: Right. [00:29:25] Speaker C: She didn't really have anything to do. They had no agenda, nothing going on. [00:29:29] Speaker B: She was there to yell at him when she found out. That's it. Right? [00:29:32] Speaker C: Did I. [00:29:33] Speaker A: Did. [00:29:33] Speaker C: Yeah, pretty much. Did I miss it or misinterpret what was going on the first night? I want to say we're in that house. I think within the same two sentences, she's like, you know, I'm fully behind you, and you've got my full support. But also, if this book doesn't work out, I'm taking the kids and moving to my aunts. And I'm just like, wait a second. [00:29:51] Speaker B: You heard that, right? [00:29:51] Speaker C: Are you supporting him or you, like, ultimatum the door? Like, what. What is happening right here? Because that does not sound like a loving, supporting wife. [00:29:59] Speaker B: As long as you succeed. [00:30:00] Speaker C: Yeah, if you're successful, I'll stick around for 15 minutes of fame. [00:30:04] Speaker A: But I thought there was some discussion about. He moved them in near where a crime took place for the first book that took off. And she said, if you do that again, I'm leaving. And then she doesn't leave. That's what got me. [00:30:20] Speaker C: Yeah, well, they all left. [00:30:23] Speaker B: Well, when she finds out, it's worse than what she thought. [00:30:26] Speaker A: She should have left with the kids and actually stayed true to a character that made sense, but it didn't. They could have got back together or reconciled after, but once she didn't leave. When she found that out, her character was gone for me, it was over. Game over for her. [00:30:41] Speaker B: I think they should have found out. And he came to the realization that he needs to get out at the same time so that he's. So that she doesn't have to go back on her word. He can leave with them. And then we, the audience, find out, oh, it's already too late. Right? That would have been a little better, I think. [00:31:03] Speaker C: Here's an interesting. I'm making this up in my brain as we go, so this might not be as good as I think it is, but here's a thought. [00:31:09] Speaker A: Be worse than the movie. [00:31:11] Speaker B: The. [00:31:12] Speaker C: The. The demons bagel is gonna kill you once you leave the house and move to a new house. So they move into the house of the killers, and they. She finds out, and she's like, I'm leaving. I'm taking the kids like I said I would. They go off, he stays there. He gets the phone call, realizes what's about to happen. It's too late. The little daughter's already killed the wife and the brother. And he's stuck in that home because if he ever leaves that home, he'll die. And that's the end of the story, is him realizing he is trapped in this haunted house for the rest of his life and he's lost his whole family and he's lost everything, at least something, as opposed to what we got, which was nothing. [00:31:55] Speaker A: Also, aren't they broke? Why do they have another mansion? [00:31:58] Speaker B: Yeah, okay, that's. Well, if you're, if you're those kids that your parents move you from, what we later find out was their original house, two story, just beautiful. Like wraparound porch, pillars, the works, all this fancy brickwork to this like, I don't know, ranch style home in the suburbs of kind of the low rent district to town where people were murdered. Like, this was such a huge step down. Why would you, as the guy's wife, be okay with that? Like what? It just didn't make any sense how they were taking such a drastic step down in living conditions. Obviously he got a good deal on this house and he was carrying both of them at the same time. But it was like, I don't know, you try to move your family to a downgrade, it doesn't go over well, let alone a murder house. [00:32:46] Speaker C: In fairness, the daughter didn't want to move. The daughter was very adamant. [00:32:49] Speaker B: Right. [00:32:49] Speaker C: Wanted to go back to the old house. [00:32:50] Speaker B: Not adamant enough, in my opinion. [00:32:53] Speaker C: Well, fair. The brother was not a character, so he didn't get a chance to give a line out that. [00:32:58] Speaker B: Right. Nothing. [00:33:00] Speaker C: But if you are stretched beyond your means, what are you gonna do? Right? Like the kids won't understand, but the wife. [00:33:09] Speaker A: Sell your mansion, sell your. [00:33:10] Speaker C: Well, that's what they were trying to do. They were trying to sell the mansion to buy the other. Like that was something they said at the very beginning. Like we're, we're bridging the two mortgages until the house sells. So like that was the plan. [00:33:21] Speaker B: Yeah. And okay, this guy spends all his time at home. His wife is cooking dinner, taking the kids to school, after school, activities, cleaning, doing the laundry, all sorts of stuff. This guy can't take the time to change his cardigan sweater that he wears throughout the entire film. Like, he pisses me off that he can't seem to do anything for his family except mope around in his studio, wishing for days long gone. Right. Just trying to get his new book off the ground. I really had a hard time liking him at all. So I was glad that his character finally had its arc and developed and he got over his ego and realized he needs to save his family and move out. Though it was too late. And that's fine. That made it a little better, kind of. You know, I like dark endings, but it was really hard to like anybody or get attached to anybody in this film. [00:34:23] Speaker A: Agreed. [00:34:23] Speaker C: I would agree. Like. Like Ethan Hawke is the only one you're given any character development or any arc to at all. But I didn't like him just because he had. [00:34:32] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm joking. [00:34:34] Speaker A: They had to push that. He's so obsessed with one, the case because it's so crazy. And two, he needs it to make this book. That will make them rich again. And three, that's the only way he knows how to function in this world because he doesn't do anything else. [00:34:50] Speaker B: Yeah, he's kind of a loser. [00:34:52] Speaker A: It made him so one dimensional that it just. Again. [00:34:56] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:34:56] Speaker A: You don't relate to him in any shape, way or form. And then he goes off and says he's a good dad. Which we don't see at all in the movie. Really. [00:35:03] Speaker B: No, none at all. [00:35:04] Speaker A: It's just. It's just unfortunate. [00:35:06] Speaker B: And you know what? Ethan Hawke did a really good job acting in this. Like, I recognized his character. I felt his character. He gave that character some depth. I didn't like that character, but I wasn't supposed to. You're not really supposed to like this character because, you know, he has to change and grow and overcome his. His downfalls. And so that's okay. Although he's still kind of a douchebag the whole way through, but. But at least Ethan Hawke did a really good job portraying this character. I just feel like Ethan Hawke was kind of wasted on this film. Like, they probably could have got somebody cheaper to do the same thing because it wasn't a very deep role. [00:35:46] Speaker A: I think Ethan Hawke doesn't get a lot of work, so he just took the. Took the gig. [00:35:50] Speaker C: Well, you got to wonder because this seems to be. Ethan Hawke's bag is like cheap horror movies. And is that because, like, that's the only people willing to hire him or is this, like, passion for him at this point? This point? I don't know. [00:36:03] Speaker B: Doesn't he play in black phone? [00:36:05] Speaker C: I think my phone purge. [00:36:07] Speaker A: That's the same writer. [00:36:09] Speaker C: Okay, this is what I mean. Like, he's. I Feel like he's in a lot of independent or at least cheap horror movies. But like, is that because he loves them or is that because that's what pays the bills these days? [00:36:21] Speaker B: You only get so many training days. [00:36:23] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:36:24] Speaker C: But like that's like in the 80s, 9, well 90s and early 2000s, he had a lot of work. Like. [00:36:29] Speaker A: Oh, for sure, for sure. I think again, that's part of the problem with the end of this movie. Well, keep bringing it up. It ends so quickly. This character is like, his arc is like he's this kind of idiot who's super obsessed and doesn't get it. Then he gets it but then he dies immediately. So you can't go along that journey with him. And like, yeah, oh yeah. He changed for the good and now we can like relate to him. Oh no, he's dead. It doesn't matter. It's over. Yeah, it's bad writing. It's just bad writing. Yeah. [00:36:59] Speaker C: The only thing, like I just. If we're gonna just hammer how dark the movie was. It was also really funny to me how there were so many scenes where he's walking along and he's like, something is clearly wrong but he won't turn a light switch on. You know what I mean? It's just like that'd be the first thing I would do. It's like the middle of the night and you're hearing noises and like turn a light on and like his whole office has like one lamp in it. It never has a light in there. But the one that really got me, I just laughed is at one point when the, the whatever the projector starts up in the middle of the night, he runs into that office and stands directly in front of the projector. So it's blinding him as he's trying to like look at the rest of the room in pitch blackness. I'm like, what are you doing, buddy? [00:37:40] Speaker B: Like, yeah, they kept trying to set up these like really cool looking scenes that didn't make any sense. And I, I think you got to put a little more thought into how you're going to set those scenes up than what they did in this. [00:37:52] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:37:53] Speaker B: And I'll say this, I wish we would have got more of Sheriff Fred Thompson. [00:37:59] Speaker A: I agree. [00:38:01] Speaker B: I thought, I thought he was a really cool character. And their little tete a tete in the beginning was really cool. I wanted them to come back and have a few more of those and we didn't. [00:38:12] Speaker A: He just ended. Yeah. [00:38:13] Speaker B: Yeah, that was it. [00:38:15] Speaker C: I was again, I was waiting for Something to happen with the deputy. I thought there'd be something potentially interesting going on there and there just wasn't. He was just the guy on the phone. [00:38:24] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:38:24] Speaker A: Or give me more Vincent. Seriously? [00:38:27] Speaker C: Yeah, lots more Vincent. [00:38:28] Speaker A: More Vincent. Like he had the lore, he had the background and he's like, oh, there's not very much but here's some pictures. And he's like a scorpion. Okay. Mongoolie is a scorpion and a snake. That's great. Whatever. Sorry. [00:38:44] Speaker C: Mr. Boogie. [00:38:45] Speaker B: Bagel Man. [00:38:46] Speaker A: The boogeyman. [00:38:47] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:38:47] Speaker A: Okay. It was just like it's so little [00:38:49] Speaker B: to go off of it. [00:38:50] Speaker A: It just, it wasn't enough substance for what they were going for. And then he didn't look that creepy either. He like was like a dark mask figure. But he was photobombing in these. [00:39:02] Speaker C: Super honestly shown him, I actually did like the look of the. The Mr. Boogie. Like. Oh yeah, blow up Brian's wall a little bit so you can see him in the background there. Yeah. There's not a lot to his design but that's why I like it because it is kind of just a creepy looking person as opposed to like a over elaborate giant bunny suit for instance. You know what I mean? Like it was just kind of a freaky looking dude. [00:39:26] Speaker B: I. I would have appreciated it more had the little girl like on the poster drawn pictures of Mr. Boogie, but we never actually see him. I think him being an absen antagonist in this film would have been much more appealing. It would have, you know, let my imagination run. Because a child's drawing of a really scary boogeyman is going to give me a way better mental image for myself to build on than anything they can create. And I think two of the times like Dan, you mentioned him in the bushes behind the tree. The hanging scene, that didn't go well for me. That didn't play well for me at all. [00:40:06] Speaker C: Not that, oh, he's in the house right before the dog. Right. Like he goes outside with the baseball bat and the dog's there. Like right before that happens he sees the face in the bushes. Okay, right. It might not work that scene either, but I'm just saying that's the one. [00:40:19] Speaker B: I don't think that scene worked for me. Almost any scenes with whatever, Mr. Boogie didn't really do it for me. But specifically the hanging scene where he's looking in the video and he sees him in the background and then the one where he's turning on a still frame of a video and then come back in the swimming pool was. Yeah, I Just. I didn't like it. Just straight up, I didn't like it. [00:40:39] Speaker C: Again, I will argue a little bit. I. I did. Like, the first time we see his face, which I think is the swimming pool, where he's going, like, frame for frame for frame, and then you just get, like, a little glimpse of it. That kind of made me go like, oh, like, is this a serial killer? Like, that kind of pushed me in the. In the right direction for what they were trying to do at that point in the film. So I did like that, where you're like, oh, like, is this guy actually going to crack the case by seeing the mask of something nobody sees? [00:41:03] Speaker A: Yeah, I. I'm willing to reconsider that. His look isn't bad, but the way they used him was bad. Okay, I'll say that. I'll say that. [00:41:13] Speaker C: I'll give you that. [00:41:14] Speaker A: Let's wrap this bad boy. [00:41:16] Speaker C: If you like what we do and you want to help support us, consider joining the Patreon. There's a link down below. Thank you to our producers, as well as our executive producer, Dino, and of course, our writers, Mrs. Hillary Real, Bubba Hotep and Windstorm114. Thank you so much. [00:41:32] Speaker B: All right. I actually kind of had a good time with this film. It wasn't near as good as some other scary movies that I watched this same week, and we're going to get into reviewing that later. So I was kind of worried that the better films that I watched this week were going to kind of overshadow this film. I think Dan and Will did not enjoy this near as much as I did, but I think that the. The content, the topic, the ideas that they were dealing with in here were sinister enough that it made this movie have a good creep factor for me. It made me want to be in it, and it made me want to look past its other failings. The scenes, the shots, some of the cinematography, the way Mr. Boogie worked, those things that just didn't really come together for me. Every time he turned on that projector and started watching another snuff film, I was on the edge of my seat because that was the real scary part of the film, is seeing that happen. And Eth. Ethan Hawk's performance as he reacts to some of that, he's trying to. To view it. He's trying to make something of it. He's trying to push himself for this epic new book that he just feels he has to have, and yet he is watching some of the most horrific things a person could watch if it were to be real. And so his response to it was, was really good and really kept me into this film. I give this one a67. Overall, I think it has some merit, but unfortunately it has a lot of flaws in it. [00:43:13] Speaker C: I agree with Brian. This one has a lot of flaws in it. Right off the bat, this movie was incredibly dark. And obviously that is subject matter as well as cinematography. I. There were lots of scenes in this movie where it was laughably dark and the characters were doing nothing to prevent that. And it's the middle of the day and I can't tell what's going on. And if you want to have a scary movie, that's fine. If you want to have things jump out of me from the shadows, that's fine. But I still want to be able to see what is happening during your film. And if I can't, that is a big issue for me. So the cinematography of this one gets a pretty low score for me, unfortunately. Ethan Hawke's performance is great. He does a very good job. I believe that he is getting freaked out and scared as he is watching the things that he's seeing. And he's going through the emotional roller coaster he's going through. He's got no real supporting cast. Nobody else in this movie is there enough to be a character. Vincent d' Onofrio is great. I really like seeing him. I don't think anybody was bad, per se. I just. There's no relationship. There's no connection with him and anybody else in the film. It was just him. It was entirely his story. And as far as the story itself goes, I would have been more interested if it had been a serial killer. That would have been far more exciting for me than the possession story. And the way we find out about the possession story so late and then the movie just ends within five minutes after that didn't lead to a whole lot of tension or build up. So, unfortunately, I wouldn't say this is a very scary movie. It is just as scary. Creepy one. Now everything I just said, throw it out the window. Those snuff films are incredible. They're really well made. They're well lit for what they are. The handheld camera actually works, even though it is kind of a shaky cam. Those do exactly what they're supposed to do. They're just not enough to carry the rest of this film. I don't see myself watching this one again. I enjoyed it well enough the first time, but the ending left me so unsatisfied. I. I just don't see myself returning this one. This one gets a 48 for me. This one was funish once, and that's kind of the best I can say about it. [00:45:17] Speaker A: The writer director's name is Scott Derrickson. I haven't seen anything else that he's made, which seems to be a lot of kind of horror movie type movies. And Doctor Strange. Doctor Strange is the only one I did see. It was so. So this movie is a perfectly underwhelming supernatural movie that utilizes genre cliches because they don't know how to actually make a horror movie or write one for that matter. The direction and the writing got the weakest score from me on here. And it really. If you don't have those two key elements, it drags down everything else. You can be the best actor in the world, but if you don't have a good script or a good director, your performance isn't gonna do anything. And the. The Super 8, we all. We all agree the Super 8's the best of it. About this mov. [00:46:07] Speaker B: Just. [00:46:07] Speaker A: It's just a. It's just a mess. It's just a mess of a movie. And I still can't believe it was deemed the scariest movie ever made. 52 out of 100 do not recommend [00:46:19] Speaker C: and with that, we see Sinister coming in with a fairly disappointing 56 total. That's 48 from me, 67 from Brian, 52 from will bring it in under Mortal Kombat, but ahead of Venom. What do you guys think? I have not heard anything about Sinister 2. You think there's any chance this goes up or is this destined for the bottom? [00:46:39] Speaker A: I'm guessing it's going to go down as sequels 10 2. But I'm happy right now that it's above Venom. [00:46:47] Speaker B: Honestly, I'm. I'm really hoping, and I know I'm going to be wrong, but I'm really hoping that the sequel shores up a lot of loose ends, comes back at this with a better attempt, because I feel like there is an idea here that could work. It just wasn't put out well in this film. And I feel like a sequel has the opportunity to maybe do it right or do it better. I hope we have all new characters. Unless they want to bring back Fred Thompson, I wouldn't mind that. But I hope we get all new characters and an interesting story that fits better than this did. [00:47:29] Speaker C: I think there's definitely all the pieces there for this being a really interesting movie. I just don't feel like it came together in this situation. [00:47:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:37] Speaker C: If anything, I could see Vincent d' Onofrio Coming back because you're always going to need to know. Have somebody who's explaining who the demon is and what's going on there and [00:47:44] Speaker A: he has the connection to the person who died. So he could maybe look further into. [00:47:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:50] Speaker A: The information that he was giving out and, and was receiving from Ethan. Ethan's character. [00:47:55] Speaker C: Assuming it's not a prequel, then theoretically whoever's going to be the star of the next one is going to have to be rich enough to afford that mansion of a house. Right. To live there and then move somewhere else. So although that house is probably going pretty cheap at this point, but, you know. [00:48:09] Speaker A: Yeah. Mass murder. Yeah. [00:48:10] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:48:13] Speaker B: Would either of you purchase a house that was clearly being sold under its actual value because a family had just been horrifically murdered in it? Would either of you do that in real life? [00:48:26] Speaker C: Debatable. [00:48:28] Speaker B: Let's say it's. It's a lot of factors. [00:48:31] Speaker C: A lot of factors. [00:48:32] Speaker B: Let's call it a $300,000 house. And it's coming under 25% under market value. [00:48:38] Speaker A: Where you're gonna find a $300,000 house, I have no idea. [00:48:42] Speaker C: I was thinking the same thing. I'm like, oh, that is a different market down there, I guess. [00:48:46] Speaker B: Oh, okay, sorry. [00:48:49] Speaker A: 50 years ago. [00:48:50] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:48:53] Speaker B: Mine's a 350. [00:48:55] Speaker C: You can have as many murders there as you want. [00:48:58] Speaker B: Okay, so let's just say it's. It's a great house, great location. Coming in 25 under market value. Would you pick that house up knowing that someone was viciously murdered there? [00:49:09] Speaker C: If there was a. Nothing I say is going to sound good in the next sentence. Sentence. Husband killed his wife and, and kid and killed himself. Probably. Like that's a pretty open and shut kind of a thing. [00:49:24] Speaker B: If it's like the murders, if the murderer is still out there, it's a deal breaker, huh? [00:49:29] Speaker C: It kind of is. [00:49:30] Speaker A: I don't know. [00:49:31] Speaker C: He might come back. That's a legit thing. Like if, if the family dies and they don't know who killed them. Nope. I'm not taking that on. [00:49:39] Speaker A: That's fair. That's totally fair. [00:49:41] Speaker B: Jesus Chat. You guys need to move to Texas. You can pick up a house for [00:49:44] Speaker A: a steal down here. [00:49:46] Speaker B: I don't know what you paying up there, but man, I had a big upgrade moving into a $300,000 house down here. [00:49:54] Speaker A: I'm happy for you. [00:49:58] Speaker C: All right, well, that's our rating of sinister, but what's yours? Leave a comment down below. I'd love to hear what you have to say about this film. We record this every Thursday night over at Twitch tv, the Mongolie Show. So head over there and hit the follow button if you want to hang [00:50:09] Speaker A: out with us live. [00:50:10] Speaker C: Or if you made it this far in the video, you probably enjoyed it. Make sure you hit the like and subscribe button so we see you in the next one.