Ep 71 - Shutter Island (2010)

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Marshall Edward Daniels is shipped to an island on a missing persons case at the mental institution built there. But he ends up digging up past memories that prove the investigation is dead in the water. [00:00:20] Speaker B: Completely overrated. [00:00:21] Speaker C: Hello everybody and welcome back to our rating the show where I get together with two of my friends, we take a movie franchise, break it down by a movie, give it an overall score and throw it back up on the board. Except this week we're doing the Patreon pick where once a month we take movie you guys choose and dissect it. So we are taking a look at Shutter island from 2010 this year. Not a franchise, no sequels, nothing like that. But Will, how did you come to this movie? Have you seen it before? [00:00:44] Speaker A: Yes, Dan, I have. Saw it in theaters when it was released in 2010. [00:00:49] Speaker C: Very nice, very nice. What about you, Brian? [00:00:52] Speaker B: Yeah, this was my third or fourth time watching it. Enjoy this movie because it's got layers like an onion. I was picking up new stuff. Every time you watch this, you pick up little things in the background. This is a great movie to watch again and again. [00:01:06] Speaker C: Very nice. This is only my second time having watched it. I saw it when it first came out on. I mean It's a DVD back in the day, probably 2010, 2011, somewhere around there. And I have not revisited it until now. I have been wanting to revisit it for a little while now. So it was kind of nice that it showed up on the Patreon. So we had a, an excuse essentially to go back and watch it. And we did this one last Sunday for a watch along party with a couple of people, which is a lot of fun. What did you guys think of watching it this time? You obviously, Brian, you said you picked up new things this time to watch [00:01:37] Speaker B: half the watch party and then I had to go and then pick it up later and it was, it was kind of weird where I left off and where I picked back up. It was kind of start and stop and the movie almost kind of turned on a dime for me at that point too. So I'm not sure if it was when I watched the second half. I was in a bad mood or something. But it, I enjoyed the Watch party more. I'm not trying to sell the Watch Party, but I always enjoy that, so. But I had a good time re watching it, just finding new stuff and all the way to the end. Overall, I, I did enjoy it. [00:02:08] Speaker C: Nice. Will, this is your second time seeing it. Haven't seen it in 16 years. Did it hold up to what you [00:02:14] Speaker A: remembered yeah, it was about the same. [00:02:18] Speaker C: Good thing we went full screen. Yeah, yeah. I was trying to remember because I, I knew there was a twist at the end of this one. I knew that a lot of people talked about the twist. I couldn't remember. I feel like if you were to ask me before rewatching this one, I would have told you there is a twist. I think I saw it coming, but it came across a little bit vague. And then watching it this time, I was like, there's nothing vague about this. Like, it seemed very clear what happened at the end there. And we'll get into that in a little bit. We don't want to jump straight to the end, but I will say this movie has an all star stacked cast like Leo, Mark Ruffalo, Ben Kingsley, even some of the people who I don't remember their names. Some of the jail guards you just recognize from being in a lot of different things. And I think, I mean, it's Martin Scorsese. He usually gets good things out of his cast. I think this movie, like, fired on all cylinders as far as the acting goes. [00:03:09] Speaker A: Yeah, I, I, yeah, it's exactly what you said. Martin Scorsese pretty much has his pick of the litter. I think nowadays he works with Leo plenty of times and every time he usually puts out some good results. [00:03:23] Speaker C: So, yeah, Michelle Williams is the name I blanked on. I apologize for that. I had to look it up as Leonardo's wife. Phenomenal job, small role, but very important to the film. [00:03:33] Speaker A: Yes. [00:03:35] Speaker C: What'd you think of the cast, Brian? [00:03:38] Speaker B: Oh, I was cheering every time a new member came in and I knew they were coming in too, because I love this cast. I love everybody that's in this. I'm not a huge Mark Ruffalo fan myself, but he plays a great sidekick in this movie. Yeah, there were some rough edges on his character, but I don't attribute that to Mark Ruffalo. [00:04:01] Speaker C: I think Mark Ruffalo in general, I was gonna say, is better as a side character than the main character, but honestly, I can't think of a single time he's been the main character. Like, he's everything I think of with him in it. He's part of an ensemble or like a side character. I can't think of a, a Ruffalo lead film, but I do enjoy him quite a bit. I don't, I think he's in some [00:04:19] Speaker B: rom coms or something. I remember him from some of those that I enjoyed his character in that, like, I think it's like 13 going on 30. He plays the boyfriend. [00:04:27] Speaker A: You're the rom com king, not us. [00:04:29] Speaker B: I don't know. Turns out I like rom coms. I guess so. But yeah. And I liked him in those, so. Yeah. [00:04:35] Speaker A: Brian, do you mind elaborating on what you mean by some Ruffalo edges on the character? [00:04:41] Speaker B: Some Ruffalo edges? [00:04:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:44] Speaker B: I kind of felt like. And I. Like I said, I don't attribute this to Mark Ruffalo. It's his character. Let's just go ahead and spoil it right now. Mark Ruffalo is actually a psychiatrist, and he's playing a role to help DiCaprio figure out that he is not a detective on this island and actually a patient. And they're playing the role. Right. There's a couple of times when he leads him into dangerous situations. Like, he's the one who suggests that they go to compound C, like the. The really scary part of the island where. Where Leonardo DiCaprio ends up getting into a fight and he kind of like leaves him hanging there. And it was a little weird. And they never really kind of like, polish that out. Why? I mean, he kind of left him for a reason. There was a plot device, but it wasn't really well written as to why he escaped. I think they were trying to maybe have the audience look one way and then they were going to go another way with it, and it was a little weird. And there are just a couple of times when he like, kind of eggs on DiCaprio. And I'm like, if you're actually a psychiatrist just playing a role to let him figure this out, you're kind of pushing him into some pretty dangerous areas. The only time he ever stops is when DiCaprio is going to go climb down to the lighthouse and he's like, hey, man, you could slip and hurt yourself. That's the only time he actually steps in to take care of his. His patient. And you don't know that until the end. But going back over this, the third or fourth time, I was kind of noticing that and I was like, that's kind of a weird thing for the psychiatrist to say to him in that moment. It was a little over the top. And I think that's just so that when the first time you watch this, you really believe what's going on. And. And I think it wasn't a really well thought out device in. In the plot right there. Again, I don't contribute to Mark Ruffalo. It's just his character had some weird things that he did. [00:06:39] Speaker C: Now you've seen this More than I have. So I'm just throwing this out there. I don't actually know the answer to this question is that are all the other situations that he's in situations that he could talk himself out of, and that is the only one. There's actual legitimate physical danger. So he's trying to push. Because the whole point is, if I understand the movie properly, is Ben Kingsley and Mark Ruffalo are trying to push Leonardo DiCaprio until he, like, realizes what is actually going on and then snap out of it. So he's pushing him in all the situations that he feels like he can control him in, but, like, walking down a wet cliff in a storm, he's like, whoa, let's. Let's take a second and look at this, because I can't talk you out of that if you fall off a cliff. [00:07:15] Speaker B: Well, and then he takes him into the darkest dungeon of this prison asylum area, knowing it's a dangerous place, and then leaves him alone there. And that seems like not something that these therapists would do when they're trying to take care of him, because they know that he's dangerous. They know he's ex military. They know he could kill somebody. [00:07:38] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:07:38] Speaker B: They know he's got violent tendencies and stuff. So it just seemed a little outlandish. And when that happens, the first time I watched the movie, it made me feel like, oh, Mark Ruffalo is made up. Because if you watch, Mark Ruffalo says things to people throughout the entire film, and no one ever actually responds to Mark Ruffalo. And so you start to believe that maybe he's a figment of DiCaprio's imagination. And later you find out he is a therapist going along with this, and he's not a figment of his imagination. And it's a bit of a double take. And so those weird choices make sense if you're being fooled in that direction and you're thinking this is like a Sixth Sense kind of thing. And then it. And then when it's not, you're like, well, that doesn't actually fit with what they were supposed to go. So I don't know if maybe they wrote it in later that he is a real person. And at one time, there was a script where he was supposed to be a figment of DiCaprio's imagination. I don't know. It just didn't really fit well. [00:08:40] Speaker A: Well, this is based on a book of the same name by Dennis Lehane called Shutter Island. From what I've researched, I haven't read the book myself. But in most cases, with Martin Scorsese basing any of his movies off of books, he's very, very by the book. He. He definitely represents the book very well. And I think there's no argument in this case to the otherwise. The biggest change, I think, is the end of the movie where DiCaprio's character adds that little famous line at the end. This place makes me wonder which would be worse, to live as a monster or die as a good man. And so that. And. And that line itself, I think, was added for a very specific reason in Scorsese's mind. [00:09:32] Speaker B: But. [00:09:32] Speaker A: Yeah, so as far as if that character. It was written poorly or did that. I think mostly the. The character did what they did in the book. [00:09:43] Speaker B: And by the way, that final line was a killer. I'm glad they added it. I thought that put a huge twist on it, because now, you know, maybe Leonardo DiCaprio did come to his senses, but actively chooses to die as a hero rather than live as a monster. But he's. He's conscious of the decision this time rather than his psychosis taking over. Or at least that's how I took it. Or. [00:10:09] Speaker C: Yeah, if we're jumping to the end, let's just jump right to the end. What do you guys think happened there? Because I think, personally, it's pretty clear he came to terms with who he is. He's getting better, if not already better, and is like, I don't want to live like this. I can't live with the guilt of killing my wife. I'm out. And this is the only way to get out. That, like, I. I don't necessarily see another side to that coin, but I'm super curious if you guys disagree with that or. [00:10:31] Speaker B: I agree. [00:10:33] Speaker A: I think Scorsese purposely believes it ambiguous. I think multiple things are ambiguous in this movie. Yes. Is he have. Does he have clarity at the end? I think at some point he does. They mentioned that he had clarity before but relapsed. So they believe he's relapsing again, but it is unclear whether he's relapsing or choosing. But the line definitely leans towards him choosing. Or maybe is the line about him, or is the line about Chuck, Mark Ruffalo's character? You know, is it worse for them to live as monsters doing these horrible experiments on people or to die as a good man? I don't know. I think Martin Scorsese really wanted you to watch this movie again, being like, is he a mental patient or is he an actual marshal on an Investigation because we pick up just as the boat is docking. If we saw something prior to that, maybe we'd have more information. And we end just as he perhaps relapses or concedes to an ill fate by his choosing. [00:11:56] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, that's fair. [00:11:57] Speaker C: It feels like a bit of a reach there. I, I, no, no offense. Whatever. I just. I don't know. The line with the lead up, it just feels very clear what is happening there. But maybe that's just stuff I'm bringing to the movie and not what the movie itself is presenting. [00:12:12] Speaker B: I, I like the take on Ruffalo's character, that the doctors are trying to use radical methods to heal people rather than lobotomize them. So I do like that that you could take it that way and point it out. I don't. I, I agree with Dan, but I do like the look there. I never thought about that. I think it's a good take on that. I love this ending. I love that line being placed in there. It is akin to another DiCaprio film, which is Inception, where at the end, he spins that top and the camera stays on it for a good long time, and it gives it just a little bit of a wobble, but you never see it really fall over. So you never know if he's actually another layer deep or if he's come completely awake. So this. This kind of rubs me the same way, and I love being rubbed that way. So it's a. It's great. I. I think it was a fantastic ending to a really solid film. And I. And I like that they had that line inserted in there instead of going with just the strict book ending. [00:13:15] Speaker C: So would you say that that kind of a rub leaves you with a fantastic ending? [00:13:18] Speaker B: Yeah, that's it. That's it. Exactly. [00:13:21] Speaker C: Excellent. [00:13:24] Speaker A: And this is why we're not ready for the mass. [00:13:28] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. That's why we stick to bad franchises. [00:13:31] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. [00:13:34] Speaker C: Oh, my goodness. [00:13:36] Speaker A: But you guys are very clear that he is a mental patient for the last two years. No question. That he's actually a detective that they've bugged and swayed into insanity so that their secrets don't get out. [00:13:49] Speaker C: So. No, absolutely not. [00:13:51] Speaker B: Not with Mark Ruffalo saying, I'm. I'm, you know, I work here as a doctor. With him saying that, then I. I go, okay, he is a patient here. [00:14:02] Speaker A: Had. That's part of the. The doctor's plans is to cause him to think he's insane. Right. [00:14:09] Speaker B: To. To. To play along with the fantasy is. Is what the doctor's plan is to let him play it all the way out. Right. And so Mark Ruffalo plays that role. And, you know, in the very beginning of the movie, they talk about a different patient who. She creates a fantasy world so that she can accept who she is. They're literally describing right off the bat. But you as the viewer the first time through, don't know this, and I think that's fantastic as well. And so Mark Ruffalo is playing this role intentionally, just leading him into it, letting him go for it. Had Mark Ruffalo been a total figment of DiCaprio's imagination. [00:14:46] Speaker A: I'm not. [00:14:47] Speaker B: Then I. Then I would start to say he possibly could be a police officer, and they're trying to screw with him, and he's just losing it with a hallucinogenic, cigarettes or whatever. Right. Like it would allow that room. But with Ruffalo saying, being a real person and saying, yeah, I'm your psychiatrist, I don't think they're screwing with him. I don't think he was ever a detective. I think he was a guy who saw a lot of bad stuff in the war and. And did the things that he did and can't live with it. [00:15:17] Speaker A: Wait, wait, wait. So you don't think he was ever a marshal, even after his time in the war? [00:15:22] Speaker B: I mean, maybe he. Maybe he was a Marshall. I'm not really sure. But he is no longer a Marshall. I believe he is a patient, and I believe that there isn't necessarily anything nefarious going on. There's not Nazis testing on people. That's him utilizing stuff from his past that scares him, and he's trying to deal with that. And he. You know, when he went to those concentration camps and saw those dead people, he couldn't do anything about it. But now he's making a way that he can deal with those horrible atrocities in present time. But I don't think that they're really happening. I think that they're using some bad techniques, like lobotomizing people, but they're not. They're not testing on people to the degree that he imagines them. [00:16:02] Speaker A: You don't think they're trying to make super soldiers of any kind? [00:16:05] Speaker B: I don't think that. No. I think they're a. I think they're a legit insane asylum that deals with some of the worst people and just have some archaic methods is all. [00:16:14] Speaker C: Yeah, I was gonna say, I don't know how many pharma. [00:16:17] Speaker A: I get it. [00:16:18] Speaker C: I'm not sure how many legit Insane asylums there were in the 1950s. But sure, it was all kind of the Wild West. I was debating when I bring this up, but, like, I was kind of talking to Hillary about this one after the watch party. I don't know how long you stuck around for. Will, my big issue with this movie and with the whole twisting ending, Leonardo DiCaprio comes across as crazy to me from the very beginning. Like, there's. There's not a moment in this movie where I believed that he was a Marshall. Now, admittedly, this is my second time watching it, although I hadn't seen it in 16 years. But, like, from the first time we saw him on the boat, he's giving off manic, crazy energy and it never really stops. It never goes away. He never seems calm, cool, or collected. Like, just. I'm not digging on Leonardo Caprio's performance, but just everything about this movie was like, oh, yeah, he's crazy. Yeah. No, that's. That's crazy behavior. Yep. No, he's. He's totally insane. [00:17:12] Speaker B: Like, I. I gotta jump in there. I think that this is one of Leonardo DiCaprio's worst performances, to be honest. I think he's one of the weak points as far as acting goes in the film. I think he still does a good job, but this is an all star cast and everyone else is doing a great job. And I think, Dan, like, you're what you're talking about. I think that's him not really sticking the landing on his character. [00:17:40] Speaker C: I. I really like Leonardo DiCaprio, at least as an actor. I do too, as a person. I don't disagree with you though. Like, if you were to give me. If you were like, top five Leonardo DiCaprio performances. This doesn't end with conversation. [00:17:53] Speaker B: Nope. No, it doesn't make it like, not even contender. [00:17:55] Speaker C: He's had an amazing career. [00:17:57] Speaker B: Yeah, he has an amazing career of fantastic films and I love almost all of them. Shutter island, though, I do enjoy this movie and I like the writing and I like the other characters. I like the story. I just feel like he could have done better. [00:18:14] Speaker A: So just to counter a little bit on your. He's so crazy, even from the get. [00:18:18] Speaker C: Yep. [00:18:20] Speaker A: There's a couple of reasons, and it's on both sides of if you believe he is a marshal or is not. They obviously drugged him to get him unconscious on the boat. So that could be reason A, as to why he is acting manic and kind of out of place. And if he is just a patient and has this huge aversion to Water. Him alone being on the boat obviously caused him to feel sick. He wasn't really well. He was vomiting, he was sweating. He was. He was off kilter right from the get because of such the aversion to water. Because of what happened in his past. Right, sure. So I think there's, like, reasons why his character is so on edge throughout the movie. But, I mean, it's fair if you feel like he over the topped it as well. Like, it is what it is. [00:19:11] Speaker C: Okay, so if, If I agree, I agree that they did probably have to drug him to get him on the boat, because the reality is that he's a patient. I get that. But if you are assuming that he is not a patient, then he would not have been drugged and he's just waking up acting like that. Right. Like. Like assuming you are watching this for the very first time, you're taking it at face value. He is a U. S. Marshal who can't handle the water. And I. I don't know, I. I just. I just didn't love his performance. And again, like, even the way the other characters are kind of interacting with him, like, oh, well, you know, we got to put you in these white suits because your clothes got wet, and we can't handle that. Even the first guard who sees him is like, oh, a marshall's badge. I've never seen one of those before. Just felt so condescending. Like, he's talking down to him. I'm like, if this is a U.S. marshal and you're a jail guard, like, you shouldn't be talking down to him in that way. I don't know. Maybe I brought my little. My own stuff in there. 20 years in the correctional facility. I don't know. But, like, it just. I don't know, it just. It felt like they played their hand really early and really often in this movie, and at no point did I think. And the other thing is, like, you know, there's a twist coming. Like, you know, when you're watching this kind of a movie, it's not gonna. And nothing is exactly what it seems. Right. Like, I think that's why you mentioned Sixth Sense earlier. That's why the Sixth Sense worked so incredibly well. Because the Sixth Sense is a story of a little boy who may or may not be crazy and his therapist. And it's not until you get to the end, you're like, oh, other stuff is happening here. But when you watch something like we're about to do the Knives out franchise or Clue or Shutter island, you kind of know that you're supposed to be, like, trying to figure something out and seeing the twist and seeing what's around the next corner the entire time. So you're looking for it the whole time. So the twist doesn't hit as hard as when it's just like a normal movie. And then, holy crap, I didn't see that coming. [00:21:00] Speaker B: Yeah, so the twist maybe didn't hit as hard, but it was still a great twist for me because I was certain it was going to twist this way and it twisted that way, and so it was still really good to watch. I loved the plot to this. I thought it was really good. Maybe some of the writing wasn't perfect for me, but it was solid enough, and. And I thought that this is a great plot to work off of. And so I liked watching it unfold. [00:21:31] Speaker C: Nice. We mentioned this not necessarily being Leonardo DiCaprio's top five. Out of curiosity, does this make your Martin Scorsese top five, or. Let me. Let me start again. Are either of you Martin Scorsese fans? [00:21:48] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I'm a fan of Martin Scorsese. [00:21:49] Speaker C: Okay. [00:21:50] Speaker B: I. I wouldn't say that I'm a huge fan or anything, but I love Martin Scorsese films. Like, if he. If he puts out a new movie, I'm gonna go check it out. [00:21:58] Speaker C: So that's. [00:21:59] Speaker B: I guess I would say I'm a fan. So there were some really cool little things, speaking of Martin Scorsese that they did with cinematography, with editing. One of my favorites was when he's smoking a cigarette and he sees something. I don't remember what happens, but he's, like, stunned, and he's sitting there with a cigarette, like, hanging from his lips, and he's, like, barely holding onto it, and the cigarette smoke is rewinding back into the cigarette as everything else is still playing forward. And it was like, that's just so cool. And there's all these little trippy things that if you're paying attention to, you'll catch. And it was a lot of fun to find those. Throughout the film. There's one of those things that, you know, as you rewatch the film, you catch it more and more. [00:22:42] Speaker C: Yeah, there was one scene I didn't catch it. I didn't end up going back to it, but, like, people were mentioning where he's interviewing a patient and the patient is drinking from a glass of water and it's leaving a ring of condensation on the desk, but when she's going to drink, there's nothing in her hand. I didn't Go back and check that out. But is that accurate? Is that what you guys saw? [00:23:00] Speaker B: Yes. [00:23:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:01] Speaker B: I thought I was seeing something, and I wasn't gonna bring it up, but then everybody in. In the Watch party was talking about. I was like, okay, yeah, that definitely did happen. I did see that. Okay. [00:23:09] Speaker C: It's great that you guys mentioned it, because it went right past me. I didn't even pay attention to it whatsoever. [00:23:12] Speaker A: So that. That, to me, it plays back into his abrasion to water in general, right? Like, he wants to be as far away from water as possible to the mere fact that somebody drinking water is too much for his memory of what happened to his family, so that he literally removed that from his mind. That glass was not there. And so then when it cuts to an empty glass, he can see it again because there's no water in the glass. And so there's, like, a lot of people online who still believe he was a marshal. And I tried momentarily, to play devil's advocate, but I don't buy it myself because of all of this work that Martin Scorsese put in, right? Even in the first flashback sequence of him talking to his wife in the house that's on fire, and then her body is turning to ash, but she's wet. She's wet and she's bleeding. Right? Because she was in the water and got shot. Those memories are still trickling in, pun intended. And he can't get away from it. And so that's what makes this a patient story, not detective story, right? [00:24:28] Speaker B: When. When he finally goes to the lighthouse. And remember, the lighthouse is, like, on the rocks, and they're the. The tides in, and you can't get to it. You never see him swim out to the lighthouse, probably because his aversion to water. Again, seasick on the boat coming in. Can't stand it. Can't even see the drink of water, all that. And you see him running up on the shore of the lighthouse, and he says a line like, See, you just had to wait until the tide went out. I knew it would take a while. Made it. [00:24:59] Speaker C: What? [00:24:59] Speaker A: He. No, he dives in the. [00:25:01] Speaker C: He dives in the water. [00:25:02] Speaker B: He does. Okay, what's with the line that said. It took me longer, but the tide, you know, but I. But I made it. [00:25:08] Speaker A: So again, to me, part of it was they were waiting for the tide to go out, otherwise it was just too rough of water. But to me, again, it's Martin Scorsese delicately and beautifully setting up at the beginning of the movie. He's got this Aversion to fire. He doesn't ever light his own cigarette. He doesn't ever touch fire. But by the end of the movie, he swaps to holding fire because that [00:25:33] Speaker B: is the matches story, right? [00:25:35] Speaker A: Yep. And diving into the water, accepting that this is the reality. [00:25:42] Speaker B: Okay. And that's, that's him trying and, and the doctors were pushing him to overcome these aversions, forcing him into a dark place where he had to light the matches. They made sure he had the matches on him. Right. They weren't his. And then diving into the water to get to the lighthouse, they knew he had to get there eventually. They had the desk and everything set up there. They were waiting for him, so he had to dive into the water. Okay. [00:26:04] Speaker A: Now, I don't know if, if the staff or the doctors knew he would face his fear of the water or not. I don't know that, but they would definitely. Once he jumps in, they were probably like, all right, let's drive over to the lighthouse and, and take care of this guy. Like, he's gonna die. [00:26:17] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:26:17] Speaker B: They had a guard out there, no ammo in the gun, waiting. So apparently they. They knew he was going to be coming out there. But he had this weird line when he came up the hill to the lighthouse. And he's like, I knew it would take a while, but I, I made it. And I thought he was talking about the tides, but I guess not. I don't know. Yeah, I mean, is. [00:26:34] Speaker C: He tried to make it to the lighthouse a couple of times, so maybe he's just like, oh, it took me a while to get here because I tried the first time and I couldn't do it. I tried. I'm not sure. I don't remember that line, to be perfectly honest. But I. Yeah, just making a guess out there. [00:26:46] Speaker B: Chat raises a good question. Hillary says. So here's my question at the end. Do we have Andrew or Teddy? And if you notice, Chuck, Mark Ruffalo's character, calls out to him as he's walking away, and he says Teddy. And he does not respond to it at all. And I thought that was an interesting choice too, because he could have called Andrew and had him not respond, but he didn't respond to Teddy, though he was pretending to be Teddy or was Teddy again. But was he or was he not? Right. So I thought that was kind of cool. [00:27:17] Speaker A: Yeah, I, I think again, like Dan mentioned, I don't think the twist of, oh, he's actually a patient was all that, like, mind boggling because of all these clues and, and things they. They display throughout the movie, which are fun. If you watch on a re watch, you can pick them out a lot easier. Like Chuck even, like, having trouble getting his gun out. Like, what Marshall would have trouble de. Holstering his gun. There's all of these little, little clues throughout, which is funny, fun. But I think the only real interesting part is at the end with that line, live as a monster or die as a good man. Is he referring to himself as Andrew and wanting to die as a hero in this Teddy world he created, or is he slipped back into this role because he can't live with himself after doing what he did and experience. Experience when he. What he had. And I think that's really the only question left in this movie. Even though there's great debates whether he's still a marshal or not online, I [00:28:23] Speaker B: think that he is Andrew wanting to be Teddy the hero. And then when he knows. When Marco. [00:28:32] Speaker A: Yeah. He knows he will pretty much get an assisted suicide, right? [00:28:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:41] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:28:42] Speaker B: And so I think that's why he doesn't respond trying to be Teddy, even though he knows he's. He's Andrew. He's trying to be Teddy. He's trying to be the hero. He wants to die that way because he can't stand to be Andrew. And so that's why he doesn't respond when he calls him Teddy. [00:28:56] Speaker A: So that's what I feel. It is. I feel like he is Andrew. He knows he's Andrew. He would. He. He's pretending to be Teddy so that he can go through with it. My question is, does Chuck or Dr. Sheehan, does he realize after he calls Teddy and there's no response, does he realize what he's doing? [00:29:19] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah, I. I think he is aware of what's happening right from the time he asks the question. Like, he is the audience realizing, like, oh, this is about to go really sour. [00:29:28] Speaker B: I agree. And I think that's Andrew's Andrew telling them, hey, what you did worked here and you should keep doing this instead of just lobotomizing people. I think that's him throwing him a bone and saying, hey, it wasn't for not. But I'm choosing to be Teddy because I can't live as Andrew. That's what I think. [00:29:48] Speaker C: You either die the Teddy or you live long enough to see yourself become the Andrew. If you like what we do and you want to support us, consider joining our Patreon. There's a link down below. Shout out to our producers as well as our executive producers, Real Ba B Hotep and Dino And a huge shout out to our writers, Elder JM990 and Ms. Hillary, for making this episode possible by choosing the Patreon pick. We look forward to what they choose every single month. [00:30:13] Speaker B: So you can throw me up on the screen here. We'll keep it short and sweet. I mean, this. This movie really is all about who do you think he is and how is he, who do you think he thinks he is and who do you think other people think he is? You know, because you can really let this movie become anything you want it to be. I love ambiguous endings like that that maybe lean one way or another, but still give everybody enough room to go around. And this is a movie that we could talk about for so long. I mean, it makes me want to bring it up on the screen and re watch pieces of it. So. Definitely had a lot of fun. I think this is a fantastic film. I do think it is not Leonardo DiCaprio's best work, though. I wouldn't say that he did a bad job at it. So I ended up giving this one a 79 out of 100. I. I would suggest it to anybody as a great movie. I would not suggest it as the best movie for any of these actors or for Scorsese, but I definitely would say if you like twist endings, if you like trying to figure things out, if you like a kind of creepy, scary whodunit, this is a fantastic film to watch. [00:31:26] Speaker C: All right. I agree with some of the things Brian said. This movie, I think, is a solid Martin Scorsese, a solid Leonardo DiCaprio. The cast, the crew, everybody is firing. Maybe not on all cylinders, but on many cylinders. I think there's very little to pick apart as far as plot, acting, directing, cinematography, sound. The problem is one of my categories is fun. There's a reason I haven't seen this movie in 16 years. I just don't like it very much. I. I feel like it's very obvious where it's going. Even though it tries to be as twisty and turny as possible. I feel like I saw what was coming way down the line. And Martin Scorsese decapitate. Like, they do their absolute best to, like, throw you a bone and try and turn you a different direction. But by the end of the day, I was just bored, waiting to see if I was right. And I was. The watch party is probably the only reason I stayed awake during this film. I know that's really, really harsh, but I was. I just did not have a good time watching this. That being said, I can't pick apart anything about the craft of this film. So it does still get a pretty high score from me, despite the fact that I just did not enjoy this. I give this one a 77 out of 100. Well, well made film worth checking out once if you've never seen it. Although not maybe after this review. So you know everything that's coming, just. Just not for Dan. [00:32:48] Speaker A: Yeah, I'll start this review by saying, if you haven't seen this film yet, go and watch it before watching this episode. All right. It will. It will ruin it. This. This whole thing will just ruin the movie for you. [00:32:59] Speaker B: You. [00:33:00] Speaker A: No, I'm. I'm kind of in agreeance with run 7, and I'm kind of in agreeance with the Mongoolie show here. There. It's a good. It's a good movie. It's a solid movie. My biggest issue is it's a little bit slow and predictable. And so for a psychological thriller, kind of knowing how it's going to end kind of takes it. It dampens it a little bit. Pun intended. That said, in 2000, 2000, I think a little movie called Memento came out. And it's a psychological thriller, very similar kind of story. And if you haven't seen that movie, I suggest you go see it, because I think it was much better executed than this film. It was a more creative execution. And that movie, I will fight anyone over go see that movie. So because I had seen that movie prior to this, I was just like, oh, this is okay, I guess, but it's not Memento. So I'm coming in at a 77 out of 100. [00:34:10] Speaker C: And with that, we've got our Patreon pick list, which is different from our regular weekly gun, where Shot island comes in right in the middle with a 78. I'm not gonna ask you if you think this is right because it's dead in between our three scores, we are as close as I think we've ever been on a movie before. On this one, all within two points of each other is insane. Although I'm looking at Moon and it's the exact same thing, so maybe I'm wrong. This feels okay to me. Like we've said a bunch of times, not necessarily for us, but solidly made film. [00:34:41] Speaker B: I have more fun watching Moon and enjoyed the Leeds performance better in Moon than I enjoyed the Leeds performance better in Shutter Island. So this works for me. This. [00:34:51] Speaker A: This fits. [00:34:52] Speaker B: That's fine. [00:34:53] Speaker C: Yeah, I. I would agree with. With all of that. [00:34:56] Speaker A: I can't wait for the next Patreon pick because it's doozy. It was a switch up from what we've seen. [00:35:03] Speaker B: Yep. [00:35:03] Speaker A: Keep. Keep them coming. [00:35:05] Speaker B: I'm. [00:35:05] Speaker A: I'm loving it. [00:35:06] Speaker B: Definitely. [00:35:06] Speaker A: Good. [00:35:07] Speaker C: Awesome. Well, that's our rating of Shutter island, but what's yours? Leave a comment down below. I'd love to hear what you have to say. We record this live on Twitch tv themongooly show. So you can head over there and check us out every Thursday night at 9pm Eastern, Sunday standard Time. Or if you made it this far in the video, you probably enjoyed it. Consider giving it a like and subscribe so that we see you in the next one.