Ep 102 - Terminator Dark Fate (2019)

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Like a franchise that has no intention on changing its future or forgetting its past, Dark Fate rolls the dice on upsetting the entire fan base. Just to repeat the past by sending more robots from the future. [00:00:23] Speaker B: Completely overrated. [00:00:25] Speaker C: Hello, everybody, and welcome back to our rating. The show where I get together with two of my buddies, we take a movie franchise, break it down by movie, get it an overall score, and throw it back up on the board to see where it lands compared to the other movie franchises. This week we're talking about the final so far movie in the Terminator franchise. Terminator dark fate from 2019. This one stars the epic return of Linda Hamilton as well as the constant return of Arnold Schwarzenegger. So I gotta ask you guys, Will, I think I know the answer. This one. Have you seen this movie before? [00:00:52] Speaker A: This was the first time for me, man. I was excited to end this franchise. [00:00:58] Speaker C: Now, out of curiosity, this is your first time seeing it, but is it really your first time seeing its movie? Let's be honest, [00:01:06] Speaker A: fair play. [00:01:07] Speaker B: It feels like we went back in time and watched it again. Right, right. [00:01:11] Speaker C: And what about you, Brian? I think you're the only one amongst the three of us who has seen this movie. [00:01:14] Speaker B: I think this might be my third time watching Dark Fate. Actually watched it at the watch party and had a pretty good time there. Nice. [00:01:23] Speaker C: Very nice. Did you see this one in theaters? [00:01:25] Speaker B: Oh, sorry, No, I don't think I saw this in theaters. I think I've only seen it on streaming platforms because I was so disgusted with the franchise up to this point that I really didn't think Dark Fate was going to be anything I wanted to watch. [00:01:38] Speaker C: Sure, that's totally fair. Sorry, will I step into there? [00:01:41] Speaker A: No, no worries. I was just. You alluded that it was Brian's not first time, but your first time. [00:01:48] Speaker C: That's correct. This is my first time seeing this one. This is the first one in the franchise that I watched for the first time for our rating. All the other ones I had seen before, I saw. Like, I kind of walked in the room on somebody watching this and they're in like the. The damn phase or the damn scene, like, near the end. [00:02:03] Speaker A: Right. [00:02:03] Speaker C: And I was like, oh, is this any good? And they're like, yeah, it's decent. Like, all right, then I won't watch it now. And I left the room and I just never went back. But I gotta say, like, having watched this now in 2026 for the very first time, I didn't hate it. I. I don't know that it's like super high on my list for me. That's something we're going to discuss over the course of the next hour. But I. I kind of was under the impression that this would be like, another Genesis or another three, which it. In fairness, it kind of is. But something about this movie does step it up a little bit, even though it is very much the exact same idea from, like, two onwards. [00:02:43] Speaker A: Right, right. [00:02:45] Speaker B: I've heard a lot of people. [00:02:46] Speaker C: Oh, go ahead. [00:02:47] Speaker B: I've heard a lot of people say that this is what Terminator 3 should have been. And I have to agree. If you're gonna repeat the same recipe again, at least this one felt good. I mean, we can all agree we are sick and tired of this same plot. Right. And. And I'm sick and tired of seeing Schwarzenegger. I really don't think he needed to be in this film. They could have done it with any model of 800 that they wanted to. It didn't have to be his skin, right? Yeah. [00:03:19] Speaker A: Or just remove it all together. It really wasn't necessary, I don't think. [00:03:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:03:24] Speaker C: I think bringing Linda Hamilton back, like, that was supposed to be, like, a big deal. If this had been Arnold's first return to the franchise in a couple of movies or, like, since two. So, like, Linda Hamilton and Arnold were both coming back for this one. James Cameron's a producer on this one. I would be like, oh, okay. Like, that's an event. [00:03:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:03:41] Speaker C: But, like, Arnold's been. Even though one of them is just, like, a CGI representation, Arnold's been in every movie in this franchise. And I love Arnold to death. Like, he's one of the actors who, like, will kind of sway the needle for me if I'm gonna watch a movie or not. But, like, it has to make sense. And at some point, you're just like, we've seen that they do make our T8 hundreds in other models. Why do we only ever get the Arnold Schwarzenegger version? [00:04:03] Speaker A: Right? [00:04:03] Speaker B: Now, my question. My question to you guys is, what did you think of Arnold's performance in this one? Because for me, he's been kind of up and down throughout the franchise. [00:04:14] Speaker A: It's on the better half, I guess. But again, I just feel like it was an unnecessary presence. So it didn't do a lot for me, and I didn't love the whole storyline. He had to be honest. Like, he's a Draper. He's a real drape artist, and it just doesn't feel like a Terminator would take that path. I don't know what to Say like a Terminator is Skynet, Skynet is Terminator. You don't just drop your human killing wants and needs to help people. I don't know, it just. It felt pretty forced to be like, Everybody loved the T2 Terminator being good because he was reprogrammed to be good. Let's bring him back in some way. And I just felt it was a wrong way to do it. [00:05:13] Speaker C: So this movie is supposed to be Terminator 3 essentially, right? Like, they're supposed to basically ignore everything [00:05:19] Speaker B: after Terminator 2, franchise after T2. [00:05:23] Speaker C: I wish that they had said that in some way. You know what I mean? Like, I. Like for the average person who's just turning this on randomly, you're going to assume that this is Terminator 6, not Terminator 3. And if you do that, there's a lot of things in this. I mean, it's all timey, why me? Nonsense. But like, there's a lot of stuff in this. It doesn't really work if those other movies existed. If you do know that this is Terminator 3, it does make more sense. It is a little bit better. The one thing that would change drastically, the Arnold Schwarzenegger you asked for his performance and whether or not he deserves to be in this movie or should be in this movie. If they kind of changed the end of two instead of having this be a sequel to two. So instead of them sending a different Terminator, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Terminator back. If he had been the Terminator from Terminator 2 been successful, I guess then he would have not shot John Connor. I was trying to talk myself into a way where it makes sense that he's old. But like, they don't just keep sending the same person back. [00:06:18] Speaker B: Right? It's hard to get rid of Connor and get Schwarzenegger back in here and have it make sense. And I think that this, if this, if that's what you want to do, this one did the best job that you could with that. I just think Schwarzenegger's role in this was completely unnecessary. He was just there for audience appeal. And I think it increased the budget dramatically and ended up not being beneficial. I will say this, though. I thought his acting was on par with T2. I really did like his. His performance in this. I really liked the character that they developed for his T800. The drapes thing. I think that was just kind of trying to be a gag. And that was the one joke that really didn't land all that well for me. It was a little. It was like a Bridge too far. As far as the humor went. But like, every other joke, every other little sly thing he said really had me chuckling at the least, belly laughing sometimes, just enjoying that. I thought the humor was pretty good that they brought in. [00:07:23] Speaker C: I actually didn't mind. Okay, look, I'm not a huge fan of, as Will said, like, the fact that the Terminator just forgot all of his programming once he finished his job and was like, oh, humans are actually pretty cool. And I'm gonna raise one. Like, that's weird. But if you go along with that premise, the idea of him getting a job and becoming good at it over time. [00:07:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:07:41] Speaker C: Is kind of funny to me. And, like, the scene where he's talking to somebody. I can't remember. It might have been a deleted scene. I should know that I'm saying it out loud. But there's a scene where he's talking to somebody and, like, explaining, like, no, you want to put, like, these kind of curtains in this kind of room. [00:07:51] Speaker A: No, it's in the movie. [00:07:52] Speaker C: It's a little. That is in the movie. Okay, yeah. Like, you're gonna have a little boy. Like, put this in the room. It'll be good for him. Stuff like that. Like, I. I thought that was kind of funny. I did actually like that a little bit. But it doesn't really make sense that he would complete his mission and then just be like, oh, retirement. [00:08:06] Speaker B: I guess they could have solved that with one line of dialogue. He could have simply said, after all of my mission parameters were fulfilled, the only mission parameter left in my coding was to, you know, infiltrate. To blend in. Right. If that. If they said his. His final. His final directive is to simply blend in, then this all would have made sense, because then he's to get a family, get a job, and act like a normal person, and then he figures things out. That would have been better for me than him just saying, I finished my mission objective and I had no purpose. He should have stood there like a lump of steel until he rotted away. That would have made sense to me. [00:08:48] Speaker A: Or just killing people. [00:08:49] Speaker C: So I'm gonna. I'm gonna combat both those ideas. Whether he keeps killing people because, like, theoretically, like, go after the president or something. But the problem is, if he gets found out, which he would eventually. Eventually, you know, there's enough bullets, and he would rip the skin off, and then you've got metal underneath. Then maybe humanity goes, oh, crap, we create robots. We should maybe think about what we're doing. The same thing as if he just stands there and like, you know, the rain wipes them away eventually because, like, in. In Terminator 2, we see that they find their arm and try and make Skynet. But if you actually have a killing machine who's wandering around, like, murdering people en masse, I would really like to think that somebody's gonna go, like, hey, maybe we shouldn't do that. That being said right now, how did. [00:09:28] Speaker B: How would anybody. Well, yeah, the Americans would just blame China, [00:09:34] Speaker A: the AI race. Oh, my goodness. [00:09:36] Speaker C: Yeah, that's fair. [00:09:37] Speaker A: Okay, well, here, let's back up just a touch. Okay. You both had a pretty significant issue in a little movie called Aliens 3, where in the beginning five minutes, they offed some pretty major players from the second movie. [00:09:55] Speaker B: Completely erased the second movie. Yeah. [00:09:58] Speaker A: Is this not the same? And how do you feel about it? [00:10:03] Speaker B: I. [00:10:03] Speaker C: Right. [00:10:03] Speaker B: I don't. I don't feel that they completely. Sorry, Dan. I don't feel that they completely erase everything. They just have a major trajectory change. And honestly, I've heard so many negative opinions about John Connor in every film that we've ever gotten that I was kind of happy that he's the character they decided to not bring back for this movie. So you're right. Will they do hardcore reset everything? But in this instance, I'm kind of okay with it. Dan, what'd you think? [00:10:38] Speaker A: It's. [00:10:38] Speaker B: It's. [00:10:39] Speaker C: It's different because the franchise is different. Which is a silly answer, but let me talk myself out of it. For one, you do see Edward Furlong's character die. Like, it's not him. It's a CGI representation, but he's not dying off screen. You. You witness what happens and how it happens. You. And it does have a significant impact on the rest of the movie. She hates Arnold, even though he's saving her life. The other thing is, though, like, the whole point of Terminator movies is you can go back in time and change the past. You can go back and change things and how they go. And Sarah Connor has always kind of, like, got her back up and, like, oh, my God, the war is coming. This is coming. This is coming, this coming. And the one time she lowers her guard, that's when the bad things happen and the robots win. So it kind of teaches her, like, oh, you need to have your guard up 100 of the time. But also, like, it's a MacGuffin franchise where they're just going back and changing things every movie. Like, none of these movies, except for 1 and 2 really work all that well together. Like, basically every movie is a completely different set of circumstances where Arnold Schwarzenegger is trying to kill or save people. [00:11:41] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. [00:11:42] Speaker C: It's kind of just what it is. Whereas, like, Aliens is more like it's trying to tell a cohesive story and then just decide they don't want that part of the story anymore, that part of the budget's too expensive or whatever the reasoning was. It felt cheap. Whereas this is like, that's what I'm. It's what I'm expecting at this point. Is it what I want? Maybe not, but it's. It's kind of par for the course. [00:11:59] Speaker A: I mean, so you say it changes the trajectory, but it really doesn't. Because this also overall kind of urinates on the T2 being like, there is no fate but what you make. Because this literally just repeats everything anyway. Instead of John Connor, we get somebody else who's going to rise up and become a leader, kind of. Which I kind of liked in one way, because it's like, oh, you know what? It doesn't matter how many bots sent back. Even though they send way too many bots back in this movie, there's always going to be some human that's going to step up to that challenge. And that, I think, would be a fun, interesting way to present this, but they really don't. It's more just like. Feels like, oh, no, they're just rehashing the same plot with a different character. And John Connor doesn't matter because anybody could step into the role. And so the whole thing's a wash anyway. Whereas 1 and 2 were these nice contained units that kind of all pieced together and made sense. Now it's just all of the window. But anyway, what do y'. [00:13:05] Speaker C: All. [00:13:05] Speaker A: What do y' all think about that? [00:13:07] Speaker C: That would have actually been an incredibly funny turn of events if the Terminator goes back, kills John Connor so that I don't have her name in front of me. [00:13:16] Speaker A: Danny's character, Danny or whatever. [00:13:18] Speaker C: So that Danny becomes a resistance leader, and she's way effing better at it. So the war never really gets a foothold because she's just like, takes their knees out from under them right at the very beginning. The robots just lose instantly, and it's like, oh, the robots really screwed themselves on that one. That'd be more like a Robot Chicken sketch than an actual movie. But that'd be really funny. [00:13:35] Speaker B: They did keep a little bit of continuity. They did keep a little bit of continuity from Terminator 2 in that they set back Skynet and stopped Skynet from actually Happening. And so we get a different thing that happens now as you dive into Terminator lore and go into the novels, the comic books, the anime cartoons. By the way, Terminator 0, check that out. I think it's really good. The real theme in Terminator is that Skynet or its equivalent will inevitably happen, and time travel will inevitably happen. And there is going to be this infinite loop. And that's what the universe becomes is this infinite loop of AI or robotics taking over, creating time travel. And then everybody goes back and tries to stop it from happening and. And it alters it. And so this is just one more instance of that happening. But of course, they didn't showcase it like other forms of the Terminator in other areas. Books, comic books, et cetera, have done a much better job of showcasing that idea where that idea isn't really present. We're just getting tired of seeing the loop when we don't really understand that the loop is what Terminator movies and franchises are becoming or they were becoming. I don't know. We are going to get another Terminator movie. It's supposed to be directed by James Cameron. Am I. Am I correct in that? I think written. [00:15:05] Speaker A: Written by James Cameron, for sure. [00:15:07] Speaker B: Written by James Cameron. Okay. And we don't know who's going to be in it, except we know Schwarzenegger is not going to be in it. So I'm very curious to see where it goes. I really liked this alternate future that still has Terminators, but they're different. What did you guys think about this? This future that's a little bit more sci fi with enhanced humans and flying airships and combats, you know, all that stuff. What do you guys think of that? [00:15:36] Speaker A: Go ahead, Dan. [00:15:41] Speaker C: It felt the same. [00:15:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:15:43] Speaker C: Like, you heard flying airships and stuff in the other movies, so that wasn't anything new. And the Terminator that came back was, I mean, nanotech, but essentially liquid metal. And he came off of a black skeleton instead of a silver skeleton. But it looked the exact same. Was still using a human chassis. Now, it did have, like, other kinds of weaponry at one point. Or we saw the ones in the future that were a little bit more like insect like and stuff like that. And it's like, okay, that makes sense. Like, the human skeleton is not exactly ideal for these robots. Like, if you can make anything you want, like, it makes sense to have four legs and six arms and like, just make these nightmare fuel creatures. So it was kind of cool to see some of that, but it, like, there's nothing about it Screamed Legion as opposed to Skynet. Like it really just was Skynet with a black paint job. [00:16:27] Speaker A: I, I definitely mirror that sentiment. I feel like, yeah, it was a different name, but it was lazy ass writing and was the exact same thing except for the skeleton had black teeth, which doesn't make any sense because it's trying to disguise itself as a human. Why would it have black teeth and whatever. [00:16:48] Speaker B: I think it kills itself with the nanotech. [00:16:50] Speaker A: Yeah, sure, great, whatever. Then why give it to you? [00:16:54] Speaker B: Because it looks cool. Well, same reason they brought Schwarzenegger back. Because it looks cool. That's it. [00:16:58] Speaker C: I always wonder why the Terminators have teeth. That's the thing that's bothered me since the movie one. Like, with the exception of Arnold, who's trying to be a person, why do the ones walking around in the future who are just metal skeletons, why do they have teeth? Like, what are we doing right? I. The thing that really bothered me in this movie, this is my, my, you know, fast moving train, was the fact that you've got like the, the skeletal robot and the nanotech robot and no explanation for why. Like, we didn't really see a whole lot of times where they used both. It just kind of seemed like the skeleton was kind of holding the nanotech suit back most of the time. And then they merged, but it didn't feel like they got stronger per se, where they're fighting. Like if you can fight with a nanotech, like the vanity doesn't need the body and you've got the body over there. Well, now you're two threats. But they would merge together and now be one threat. But it didn't. [00:17:46] Speaker A: It never felt like stronger together to the plot, Dan. Only when it was convenient. [00:17:50] Speaker C: Well, that's kind of my point. Like, it was just kind of annoying that you didn't. Like the one time where it's flying the helicopter and he jumps out of the helicopter and the thing keeps flying. That was cool. Was that worth it for the entire movie? Movie though? Like, it just felt like it was hindering more than helping and I didn't get a sense of why. [00:18:05] Speaker A: Let's take this a step further. Why not send the six Terminators that Sarah Connor killed throughout time all at once and just destroy everything? Why not go a step further and think like a real intelligence program and create a. Some sort of bio attack that would just give us some disease and kill us without having to ever create anything and fight hand to hand like a bunch of idiots, you know, like there's a whole bunch of Plot holes here. [00:18:38] Speaker C: Like if they go back in time and kill everybody. Skynet never gets born or Legion never gets created, so they need to make sure they have to. [00:18:46] Speaker A: They don't have to send the biotech weaponry to the past. This let it loose in the future. [00:18:52] Speaker C: Yeah, I'll give you that. [00:18:53] Speaker B: Well, so, I mean, this is the same thing with almost any movie. If you get thinking about it too much, you're going to find way better ways to do whatever the writers did. I think the writers did what really looks cool on screen. And after watching so many terrible, terrible Terminator films getting to this one, I'm ready to just shut my brain off and enjoy whatever they put out there, as long as it looks cool and I like the characters. And guess what? It looked cool and I liked the characters. [00:19:23] Speaker A: So. [00:19:24] Speaker B: So I'm happy with this. You're right. Lots of plot holes in here, big time. And. But that's how it could have been in almost any time travel movie ever. You go, well, if you have the ability to travel back in time, you could do this or that or the other thing, but we've got to have a movie. So that's what we get. And I'm kind of okay with it. I would like some dialogue to explain some of the points you guys brought up, though. That would be cool, but would it make the movie too long? I don't know. I'm not a director. [00:19:50] Speaker C: And this goes back to my point from Terminator 1, which is we just need one line of dialogue. You can only go back X amount of years, and then you don't have the ability to go back and do all of this nonsense. And if it was, oh, we can only send one robot at a time because of the amount of power it takes to do this. You know, okay, the robots have their machine, the humans have their machine. It is what it is. But if we're going to be sending multiple robots back in time, like somebody mentioned in chat, why don't you send them all at the same time? Like, Sarah Connor's not taking on six robots at the same time, but if you send them back in different increments, then, yeah, maybe she has a chance. There's a lot. You're right. There's a lot of things. We can rip this apart, but, like, you could do that for literal. Well, almost every movie. And it will. It'll just become a lot. [00:20:31] Speaker B: Especially time travel movies. Especially time travel movies. [00:20:34] Speaker C: Oh, sure. Well, sci fi in general. But yeah, for sure. I will go ahead and say I did enjoy most of the cast in this one quite a bit. I understand that the actor playing the main villain wants to get paid, but again, it's one of those things where if you're an infiltration unit and you can be liquid, why aren't you changing your face every five minutes so they can't see you coming from down the street? And that would be an actually really incredible, almost horror movie at that point where, if you've ever seen the movie, it follows the point of it. I won't go in depth. The. The villain, the monster, whatever you want to call it, is constantly changing form. It always looks human, and it's always moving directly towards you and. But it never looks the same twice. And it's terrifying because as the audience, you don't know what's going on. And the director does a great job of just having somebody walk down the street and they're having a conversation, and you're just like, oh, crap, is that it? And it gets closer and closer and closer, and it just walks right on past, and you have no idea what's going on. That would have made this movie so much more fun if at no time you knew who the Terminator was. But of course, he has to become Diego Ramos every time he changes, and you're just like, all right, that's him right there. [00:21:43] Speaker B: I agree. I think this would have made the movie so much more exciting and thrilling to not know who your enemy is at any given time. I would have liked them to keep in that caveat that it can only be something, someone that it's killed. I don't know why it has to do that before it has to have touched them. This one, they were, like, emphasizing it kills them. I don't know if that's solid or not. Whatever. I kind of would like that little bit of a caveat that way, you know, that, you know, the people you've been driving around with are probably okay because they're still alive and, you know, or whatever. But otherwise, yeah, I'd like to see completely random people all the time, constantly changing. That aside, though, I did like this Terminator that I felt it was scary, it felt powerful. The. The female lead who was the enhanced character fighting it, she felt. Yeah, Grace. She felt power and amazing. Those fight scenes were exciting and it was intense. So I. Even though I would have liked Dan's idea, what I got was still a fun ride. [00:22:50] Speaker C: I will point out I have nothing against the actor. I think you're right. The actor who played the Terminator was really solid in this movie, significantly Better than the villain from Genesis. That one didn't work for me nearly as well. So I did like him. I'm not. I'm not crapping on the actor, but from a writing perspective, I would have loved to have seen that instead. [00:23:08] Speaker A: Just on your point, Dan, that's one of the major things that has always been missing after T2. And T2 lost it a little bit too, but not. No, no. T2 was actually okay. [00:23:22] Speaker C: The. [00:23:23] Speaker A: After T2, this franchise lost the horror elements. The thrill, like the T1000 was scary because one people had never seen this kind of CGI before and what this thing could do had never been seen before on the big screen. And that was scary because it could put a needle through your eye and without thinking twice. And he was personable, you know, enough to blend in. And the first movie, the first Terminator was such killing machine that would stop at nothing and being was like so traumatized. And you could feel that on screen. That is not in any of these other movies. That is not in this movie. So it doesn't matter how good the actor is at portraying a robot killing machine, if you don't set up those scary elements, it just doesn't play the same. And the movie, I don't get as invested because I just don't. It just feels like another run of the mill action movie. And I feel like they're just trying to pump out another run of the mill action movie to get paid. And that's how. That's how it feels. And it doesn't help because they're just recycling the same plot over and over again. [00:24:47] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:24:47] Speaker A: You know, so all of those things just add up to like a mediocre movie. To me. [00:24:54] Speaker C: That's fair. I do remember what I was going to say. You were talking about how the T1000 or whatever it's called in this movie can look like other people but has to kill them first. Has to kill them. I think it is choosing to. To keep its cover. Yeah. Because we do see in previous movies that you can have two Sarah Connors on screen and then they have to decide, like, who are we going to kill? Who are we going to kill? So I don't think it's a requirement. I think it is just a good strategy. So I'm not against them for doing that. [00:25:21] Speaker A: No, for sure. But it's a Terminator, so it's like it wants to kill people. [00:25:25] Speaker B: Well, I say that I. I 98 disagree with Will's assessment of this Terminator. I think that the T2 did it better. The liquid metal terminator in T2 did it better, especially for its day. I still think this guy, Gabriel, the Rev9, does a fantastic job and is scary. He has some lines where he's talking to people. He's infiltrating. He's a smooth operator. He's not clunky like Schwarzenegger, and he. He blends in really well. And I felt his power, his speed, his menacing appearance when he does split into two and you're like, oh, my God, now there's two of them. And it takes them a while to figure out how to fight each one. And. And then he has to go back together because they kind of found weaknesses to each of them. I thought that was. I thought that was cool. [00:26:19] Speaker A: And. [00:26:20] Speaker B: And I don't know. I. I liked him. So I wouldn't say that he's as good or better than the Liquid metal Terminator in T2, the T1000, but I still felt he did a really solid job and it was scary to me. [00:26:33] Speaker A: Okay, fair, fair. I just. I just don't feel like they filmed it in a way to be scared dairy, you know? [00:26:39] Speaker C: Like, I. I get what you're saying. [00:26:41] Speaker A: He, you know, the T1000 at one point is the bad guy. Well, you assume he's the bad guy from the start because all Terminators are bad guys in T2. And so, you know, whoever he's talking to, it's trouble. But because he's so personable, it's, like, creepy. This guy was like, yeah, he was a smooth talker, but again, it just didn't. It wasn't filmed in the way of, like. [00:27:04] Speaker B: Yeah, that wasn't their intent in the way they shot it. I can agree. I can agree. Maybe that's what takes the edge off it for me. Maybe they could have done that and it would have been better, but I was okay with it. And. And Dan, you say that when he splits him in two, they don't do that enough. I think he splits in two, like, three different times into the movie for various reasons. [00:27:22] Speaker C: I don't think it. I don't think there's a. There doesn't seem much of a reason for it. That's my issue with it. Nothing. [00:27:28] Speaker B: The reason. It's just because it looks cool. That's all it is. [00:27:30] Speaker A: It's. [00:27:30] Speaker B: That's exact viewer. That's all it is. It doesn't make logical sense, and it does look cool. [00:27:35] Speaker C: And the helicopter scene, I'll give you. Because you can keep flying the helicopter while doing other things. So, like, it's not like it's completely pointless. It's just one of those, like, oh, this is only here to look cool. Like, it just. I like a line or two of like, oh, he needs. Because, like, the thing is, because it's Legion and because it's not Skynet, it is a different future. So maybe Legion never figured out how to make liquid metal so it can't make a T1000. [00:27:57] Speaker B: I think that's a great idea. [00:27:58] Speaker C: Enough for me. Like, that would be like, oh, it needs the chassis to keep it itself together. [00:28:02] Speaker B: Or it needs to have an actual physical chip to operate the nanotech. And the nanotech just runs on WI Fi. So it's got the chassis with the power source and the chip and then the nanotech running on WI fi, which can be separate, but it has to be within, like, 10 miles of it or something. That would have been kind of cool. A little bit of explanation, a little bit of logic in this. I just don't think that they had the chops to write that into the script, nor did they have the time, because the pacing of this movie, kind of rough. Kind of rough. So it was, like, intense and then slow. Intense and then slow. [00:28:36] Speaker C: We saw with Grace's character multiple times that she overheats and she needs to cool down and get some liquid or drugs or whatever. Basically, I just want the same thing with the t. Sorry, the Rev9, where it's like, yes, I can do this, but only for, like, 30 seconds. So I can be in two places and, like, I can get through doors and do all this stuff, but. But I have to return to my body or else I malfunction or something. That's all I need. I'm not saying I need, like, a massive rewrite. I just need some explanation for why he's not two people at all times. Because it just seems like two terminators are more scary than one. That's all. [00:29:08] Speaker B: But, yeah. [00:29:09] Speaker C: Anyways, what'd you guys think of Grace? You already mentioned a little bit. Brian, you. You're a big fan of her. Will, what were your thoughts on the. [00:29:16] Speaker A: Well, first and foremost, let us talk about Clean's Canadian corner, shall we? Can we bring up some Clean's Canadian corner right now? Because Grace is played by a Canadian actress from Vancouver, British Columbia, Mackenzie Davis. She's also in Tully, blade runner for 2049, the Martian. She's done plenty of great work, and overall, I enjoyed her. I felt her character was lacking depth, and some of the lines were pretty brutal, but I think that was kind of Pretty much across the board for this movie for all the characters. But I think she did a good job in presenting an augmented human with the strength of a monstrous robot. I don't know if I needed the oh, I'm running out of juice, I need drugs thing. That seemed like a real, just a plot device to have them kind of tuck away here and there and, and have some push the story forward bits. But again, it was not really well written. They could have found other ways around that. It just, it just seemed like it, it was a convenience thing. Oh, she's out of commission. So now Sarah Connor can take over for a minute and we can further her story. And oh, now she's back. So she's badass. And they can fight each other verbally and then fight a monster together. I don't know. I, I, I didn't mind the character, but I just felt it was underwritten. [00:30:53] Speaker C: Yeah, they didn't write this in the script, as you mentioned. Underwritten. My assumption for that was to explain away why the human race doesn't go full cyborg. Like, oh, if we can do this and there's no downside to it, let's all be augmented and then we can fight the robots and we'll win easily. But she describes it kind of like they're a one time use. Like when they burn out, they're dead. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:31:15] Speaker A: She's like, if you don't kill a Terminator in the first five minutes, you're not gonna kill it. Which is like, great, but have we ever seen that? [00:31:23] Speaker C: Well, at no point did she seem like she had a chance to kill the Terminator, let alone five minutes. [00:31:27] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:31:28] Speaker A: It's just like, why is that even in the script? But my favorite line does come from Grace. It, Let me get it right here. What is it? What is it? I can't find it. Let me summarize it. When they start to kill me, run. I like that line. That was like the one in the movie. [00:31:47] Speaker B: I said that in the group chat. I said that was an absolute badass line. Like, that was just so cool. I really like that line as well. [00:31:54] Speaker A: And it was just like the one line that gave you, it summed up her character, all of her intentions, and, and probably what would happen if Sarah Connor didn't show up and ruin the movie even more. Anyway. Oh, Dan. What about you, Grace? [00:32:10] Speaker C: No, no, no, no, no, no. We need to go back to that for a second. [00:32:12] Speaker A: Oh, we'll come to Sarah later. [00:32:15] Speaker B: I, I have a different take on Grace. I kind of felt like they did themselves a disservice by writing that as her character flaw, her weakness. It kind of put them in a corner where they had to slow the action down because you could only have short, fast sequences of her fighting. And then either somebody else has to take over or they've got to get away. And I thought that was a terrible, like, plot design. And I felt like it almost forced them to slow the action down at certain times. I would have much rather given Grace more depth and had true natural character flaws about her. Some kind of a backstory, something real instead of this artificial, you know, run out of battery power kind of thing as. As her flaw that she is supposed to overcome or get around, which really, she's just like, here, take my battery and blow them up or whatever. And so I didn't like that at all. I just, I felt. I don't feel like they did it to help out the plot. I feel like they accidentally did that and it screwed up the plot. Either way, I didn't like it and they shouldn't have done it. And I agree with Will's take on her that she lacked a little bit of depth. And I would have liked to know more. Her 22nd backstory that we got from the future was really cool and interesting and leaves me with a lot of questions. [00:33:45] Speaker C: I'm sure this is another one of the failed Terminator trilogies they're trying to make though. So we'll get. We'll get it in the next movie, I'm sure. [00:33:51] Speaker A: I don't think so. Because. [00:33:52] Speaker C: No, I don't think so either. [00:33:54] Speaker A: She dies in this one also. She has the whole winning combination in her chest from the get. Why are they going to get this EMP thing from somebody else? And who is this freaking major Dean guy? And like, oh my goodness, the convolution in this is just, just horrendous. [00:34:13] Speaker C: And I know. [00:34:14] Speaker A: I think I know the whole reason behind him, but go ahead. [00:34:17] Speaker B: Why. Why didn't they equip her with two of those? One that she could just take out of her body and use later. [00:34:22] Speaker A: You know exactly how to kill it. [00:34:24] Speaker B: That's the end all. Like, she could have stuck it to that guy's skull a lot easier than. Than Danny, you know, Man. [00:34:33] Speaker A: Anyway, Dan, your thoughts on Grace. [00:34:37] Speaker C: I. I mean, pretty much what you guys are saying, like the. I. I don't mind the overheating if they explain that that's a way in a way so that it's not a plot device for why that's just what humanity does now, right? Like, if they know that you're like, oh, you're a dead soldier, essentially, we can put you in the field for one last mission. Go. That makes sense to me. That works. I kind of wish you're right. Like, it does kind of hamper the pacing of the movie, but I. I like that explanation better than just like, oh, we can just make cyborgs now, and they're still human, but they can also fight Terminators. So that's just what the future is. Everybody's a cyborg. Because why wouldn't you be? Like, I don't disagree with the choices they made there. [00:35:22] Speaker B: Didn't it seem like her choice to become an Augment was like a radical one? Like, she's bleeding out almost, and she's like, I. I volunteer to be an augmented. Like, it was like a big deal, but they didn't explain it. I would. I want to know more. Like, that was an interesting scene that led to something that we didn't get. And I'm like, okay, I do believe that Dark Fate was intended to be a trilogy, just like almost every. Right? It was. So we'll see if it's gonna play out a little better. [00:35:54] Speaker A: It never would. [00:35:55] Speaker C: I. I would know. This movie lost money, so unfortunately, no. But, like, I get that, though. Like, she was dying. She was like, on her way out, and she's like, no, no, I want to avenge. Like, I failed in my mission. I want to avenge Danny or whatever and. And do something with what's left of what I've got left. I don't know if that didn't bother me. I mean, sure, we could have had more answers and whatnot, but the movie was the right length or long, so I don't need more. [00:36:21] Speaker B: I. You know what? I also really like that we had a lot of females in this movie, some strong leads that did better and worse. I thought Grace was super hot without them over sexualizing her. Like, the scene when she's naked, it wasn't like showing her off, really. And the rest of the time she was dressed in some pretty tattered clothes and everything, but I still found her a very attractive female. But that didn't feel like what they were going for in this film. She could have been a dude in. In the. In the play, in the role that she played would have been fine. So I really like this. This strong lead that was both very attractive but not over sexualized. So that was kind of cool. Same thing kind of, with Danny's character I liked right from the start. When her brother gets replaced by a robot, she's like, tying her hair like, I'm a go talk to your boss. Like, she's gonna handle shit. And so right off the bat, you get a grip on what her character is. So it was absolutely no surprise to me when she wasn't going to give birth to the. To a John Connor character, but she was the John Connor character. So that was. I saw that one coming a mile away. [00:37:27] Speaker A: Yeah, maybe the worst twist we've seen in a long time, right? [00:37:31] Speaker C: Yeah, I. I pointed out a couple of the. The plot twists, if you will, in the chat where I'm just, like, joking about this movie. I was like, oh, I was right and jokes about something. Oh, crap. I was right about that too. It's like, okay, yeah, just keep coming, Root. I like that she was leader, though. Like that. That wasn't the biggest twist in the world, but that was what I was saying in the chat was like, I. I kind of wish instead of her giving birth to somebody, she was the leader. And of course, Brian's like, wait for it. I'm like, oh, okay, fair enough. [00:37:57] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I'm good with that too. No issues there. I. I just again, Danny's character felt pretty flat to me overall. There was, like, very little tidbits. Like, again, you said, oh, I'm gonna go talk to the boss about you, bro. [00:38:09] Speaker B: Yeah, they needed more of that, right? [00:38:11] Speaker A: You know, you can have my job or whatever, but. And I think they withheld that because they thought this twist was going to be so cool. But it's just like, such a useless twist. It's just like, no, just give her a character that we can be like, yeah, she's. She's leaving, like, halfway through the movie. She does a little bit. She's like, no sacrifice and put me in the kill box. Which is, like, cool. But it just wasn't enough to be like, oh, yeah, yeah, okay. This is the new John Connor, leader of the Resistance. It just didn't fly feel that way. [00:38:40] Speaker C: Well, in fairness enough for me, the first time we meet John Connor, leader of the Resistance, he's a little. So, I mean, people grow into different people over time. Like, no, we saw John Connery like, oh, yeah, yeah, that guy's gonna lead you, man. [00:38:54] Speaker B: Yeah, well. [00:38:54] Speaker C: And the second time we see him, he's even worse and more of a pansy. [00:38:57] Speaker B: Yeah, well, Danny didn't grow into those cornrows in the future, man. She was not selling her future self to me at all. That was terrible. She looked younger in the future than she did. I just like, this is not, this is not it. Get like, like, you know, age her with some CGI or something, you know, it was not, it didn't work for me at all. Her future self was terrible. [00:39:19] Speaker C: Well, okay. Now the flip side of that is, if I remember correctly, the beginning of this movie starts off with Linda Hamilton watching John Connor die. And then it says 22 years later, right? [00:39:32] Speaker A: Yeah, I have no idea. [00:39:33] Speaker B: I don't remember. [00:39:34] Speaker C: I'm almost positive Arnold and Linda Hamilton both age significantly more than 22 years. Like, those are rough years for both of them over the next couple of decades. [00:39:44] Speaker A: Sarah, I could understand a little bit. She's been through a lot. [00:39:47] Speaker C: Sure, that's fair. [00:39:48] Speaker A: But at fighting Terminators all along the [00:39:50] Speaker B: way, apparently all them potato chips, man, [00:39:53] Speaker A: Potato chips and Terminators. I don't do it to anybody. [00:39:57] Speaker B: I, I don't, I don't want to bash on somebody's appearance. I thought Linda Hamilton looked fantastic in this. I did think that some of her lines could have been delivered better. Some were good, some not good at all. [00:40:11] Speaker C: But it had been 30 years. Why not just make it 30 years? You know what I mean? Like, why do we, why do we do less time? It just, I don't know, it's one of those weird little things. Yes, she has one of the worst lines in the movie for me personally, and I like Linda Hamilton in this overall. But specifically giving her the they'll be backline I thought was really stupid and I didn't care for it at all. And then when Arnold has the I had to tell my family I won't be back. But it's like we've already got the I'll be back line in the movie. It's like now it feels really stupid to do it twice. Like, I, I just really wish Linda Hamilton didn't say it at the beginning. It didn't add anything. It was kind of an eye roll moment. But then when Arnold did at the end and he's talking kind of like sadly about how he's going to leave his family forever, like that kind of did work for me. Maybe it's silly because it's a Terminator, [00:40:57] Speaker B: but it took a little steam off it because Linda said it first. So I wish they hadn't done it at all. And then Arnold could have had his day in the sun with that, with that reverse line, I think. But that's what we got. [00:41:08] Speaker C: Exactly. [00:41:09] Speaker A: I think it was 30 years because T2 was like 91 or whatever. D Day was like 98 or Judgment Day. Right. But that's where the killing takes place. It was after Judgment Day. So then it's 22 years after that. So it's. That's 30 years. Overall. [00:41:32] Speaker C: It says 25 according to Google. But this is also AI, so who the hell knows, right? [00:41:39] Speaker B: I thought Linda Hamilton's reaction to finding out Danny was the Resistance leader and not going to give birth to the Resistance leader. I felt that was a bad move. It was a weird reaction on her part. And it just felt like, I don't know, just kind of some female shame going on there. Something weird. I just didn't like it at all. And. And it was. It was a bad. Right. They shouldn't have had the twist at all. They should have just said it from the beginning and let Danny be Danny. And then you could skip all that uncomfortableness, all that awkward. Everything would have been fine. [00:42:15] Speaker C: Yeah, that's exactly what I said in the. In the discord as we were watching it live. I was like, oh, I kind of wish she didn't say she was a business leader. I thought she just said, well, actually, you're the leader. And then they tell you that 20 minutes later. I'm like, why didn't she just, like, she still told her. I know she found out in some other way. [00:42:27] Speaker A: So much time to tell her on the train when they're riding with and they just don't because they want to, like, oh, you're just a womb. That's all you are. I'm just a womb, too. Don't worry, you know, you're Sarah Connor. [00:42:40] Speaker C: You. [00:42:41] Speaker A: You what? You are the reason John Connor was going to be the leader he was going to be because of you. Like, it didn't make any sense at all. And that's why I said I had issue with Sarah Connor is because multiple things. One, her lines I thought were just terrible because of this little weird twist they forced into the movie. Two, some of her lines were just rough around the edges. And three, I still didn't feel like this was the Sarah Connor from the second movie who lived through all of this and was killing Terminators every couple of years. She just didn't feel like the same. Not up to the same bar as. As Sarah Connor from the second movie. And maybe that is because, you know, she's 30 years older and, you know she's slowing down. But, like, they tried to make her a badass. I just. I couldn't quite buy it because she didn't feel like she had the same trauma. She didn't feel like she had the same lived experience. She didn't feel like the same person who broke out of a mental hospital and took all that abuse and just kept going. She felt like, oh, yeah, I blackout drink. But she didn't even feel like that. Nothing she said really felt authentic to me. And I loved seeing Linda Hamilton back. And I think she did a great job getting physically prepared for this role, and I think she is a badass, but she just wasn't Sarah Connor from the second movie. And it wasn't a continuation in my eyes. I just couldn't connect the dots. [00:44:20] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree with that. [00:44:22] Speaker C: I agree with that. Actually pretty hard. I did like her a lot in this movie. I'm glad she was in it. And she did play a good role, but you're right, it wasn't the same role. And like you mentioned just now, I kind of was putting it together myself. Like. Yeah, when she's like, oh, I drink myself to. To sleep every night, we're like, do you like that? Just didn't. [00:44:37] Speaker B: Yeah, she didn't come off like a. Like a drunk. She did come off very bitter, but she was bitter about everything. And she should have been, like, a little bit more heartbroken that her son was dead. Well, and. And her anger towards Arnold, it didn't. It wasn't believable. It just. Yeah, her character just didn't work. And it sucks because we've seen how good she can be, but for whatever reason, it just didn't happen in this film. And it was unfortunate. [00:45:05] Speaker A: She should have gone out and got her rocket launcher and shot that thing at Arnold or tried to. And what's her name, Grace, could have pushed it out of the way and the rocket flies off and, you know, takes out half the house that I could see Sarah doing, shooting him three times in the chest with a gun she knows does nothing. [00:45:24] Speaker C: Well, that's what she had on her. But. [00:45:26] Speaker A: Yeah, but that's the thing. She's smarter than that. She's taken on multiple Terminators. She would make it happen. [00:45:33] Speaker C: You know, that's fair. [00:45:34] Speaker A: It was like such a waffly thing, and. And there was some good parts of her being like, you know, I'm not gonna trust you, and this and that and the other. But it just wasn't the Sarah Connor I wanted to see. [00:45:46] Speaker C: I did. That did lead to one of my favorite lines in the movie, when she shoots him and he's like, oh, it's gonna be hard to explain to Anna or whatever. Right. I was like, I actually Laughed at that movie. That was one like, well done. [00:45:57] Speaker B: I, I would really like to have Sarah go up to Schwarzenegger and kill him at the end and just been like, you know, whatever. I can't let you. I still can't let you live. Like, he gets the. He finish. Helps him finish off the Other Terminator, the Rev 9 or whatever. And then at the end you see Schwarzenegger like suddenly out of nowhere, just like jolt upright with like electricity or something. And she's back there holding a power cord and she's just like, I needed that or whatever. It would have been much. I would have liked that. Just showcasing that no matter what, he's gotta die. It doesn't, it doesn't matter who he is now. He killed her son. He's gotta go. [00:46:32] Speaker C: Just push him into the turbine. [00:46:34] Speaker A: With the other Terminator, the line is wrong. Instead of him saying it, she says it. She jolts Arnie to death and says for John, yeah, yeah. [00:46:44] Speaker B: That would have been a way cool way for Schwarzenegger to go out, her killing him again. She could have crushed him in another vice or something. That would have been kind of whatever. [00:46:52] Speaker A: Something, something. Yeah. Anyway, but whatever. This movie I think is filled with missed opportunities like most of these movies seem to be. Unfortunately. [00:47:04] Speaker B: I am, I am very curious to see what's in store with the next film. I liked what Salvation tried to do. Wish that we could have got more of the apocalyptic future. I like that we have a different apocalyptic future now that we could really take anywhere we want to go. It's got Terminators of a sort in it. And we're not going to see like the one I've got behind me. We're not going to see much of that one, I would assume in the future. I almost hope, because I'm kind of tired of this one. And I would like to see something new and interesting come forward. I would like to see machines that don't resemble humans in any way, shape or form, or machines that resemble humans of a variety of types. So we never know what's coming our way. But I'm very curious and very optimistic because I feel like this movie showcased some, some good ideas but not pulled off masterfully. And it, it was a turning point or it should have been the turning point in the franchise which led us to more movies like Salvation. So I kind of wash. I kind of wish this one rolled into a Salvation esque type film. But it's been a troubled path to get where we're at so far, you know. [00:48:19] Speaker C: Yeah. If we can go back and rewrite our own timeline for this one, going, terminator one, Terminator two, Dark Fate. And then maybe not salvation, but salvation. Like. [00:48:28] Speaker B: Like, yeah. [00:48:29] Speaker C: And then you get rid of three and Genesis. That could be a pretty badass franchise. [00:48:35] Speaker B: Yeah. I would like to take some of the action sequences from three or Genesis, do them up better and put them in something else. I mean, you know, seeing the liquid metal Terminator get melted by the acid was just a really cool visual scene, and I got to give that scene praise. The rest of the movie was ass, but that was a good shot. So let's take from what was good and add it to something better. [00:48:59] Speaker A: On the note of the next movie, I. I, you know, I'm. I'm like, the. What is that Alien Earth viewpoint? I. I never won another season. I. I would be happy never to get another Terminator movie. But as far as I've. I've looked up is Cameron's like, oh, yeah, I'm in the process of writing a script, but I'm also, like, waiting to see where AI is going right now so that I have a better grasp on what the AI should look like in the movie. And, you know, as AI you know, is ever growing and snowballing, I'm sure it'll happen sooner or later, but I'm kind of hopeful that it'll just never happen at all. [00:49:41] Speaker B: The end of the world or the next Terminator movie? [00:49:43] Speaker A: Both. Ideally, I would be okay because, like, [00:49:47] Speaker C: you can never really count James Cameron out. Right. Like, every time he comes up with an idea, people are like, really Titanic, and then it's billion dollars, blue aliens, billion dollars. So, like, I'm curious where he would want to take this franchise, assuming he's willing to take it somewhere we know he's not gonna bring Arnold back. Don't bring, you know, robot skeleton people back either. Like, if you're gonna touch AI there's a lot of terrifying ways you could take AI Maybe it's not even originally a Terminator movie. Maybe it's called something else, but then you have a Skynet reveal in it or something. I don't know. But I was very curious what he does. [00:50:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:50:26] Speaker C: Back in time travel, we could get [00:50:29] Speaker B: rid of time travel at this. [00:50:30] Speaker C: Exactly. That's my point. [00:50:31] Speaker B: Let's just have a great movie with great characters and great, you know, AI apocalypse ideas here. [00:50:37] Speaker A: Yeah. Something we haven't had for 20 years. I think the problem is, is, like, yes, he said, you know, Arnie's not coming back, but he was also the One that made sure Arie came back for this. He was the one that wanted Linda Hamilton back for this. So it's like, where is he at, really? He's also the one that said killing Newt in Aliens 3 was the worst choice you could ever make and then was like, all right, let's kill off one of the main central characters of this movie. So I don't know. I think he's all over the place right now and is too focused on Avatar to be of any real use. [00:51:09] Speaker C: I. I still don't quite see the correlation. Like I. I do to some extent. It's a young character. You're killing them essentially off screen. [00:51:16] Speaker A: But like just a young character. He was. John Connor is through and through the character. The rebellion leader. [00:51:24] Speaker C: Exactly. John Connor is. Which changes the film. Nude is not. It doesn't affect the film as much. [00:51:30] Speaker A: Right. But it didn't change the film. And that's the bigger problem because we just got Danny. [00:51:36] Speaker B: Because John is now Danny. Sure. [00:51:39] Speaker C: Okay. [00:51:39] Speaker B: Skynet was replaced with Legion. John Connor was replaced with Danny. And the film goes on. [00:51:44] Speaker A: At least in Alien 3, they killed those characters off and went in a hugely different direction. In this movie. They kill off that legacy character and then go in the exact same repeat cycle as. [00:51:56] Speaker C: But doesn't that show, like, the whole point of the franchise is like, you can't really stop the future because it's all just going to repeat itself anyway. [00:52:02] Speaker A: Right? Which is taking a giant dump on the second one, which says you choose your own fate. So it's like, right, pick a lane. Pick a lane. Just pick a lane. [00:52:11] Speaker C: If you like what we do and you want to help support us, consider joining our Patreon. There's a link down below. Shout out to our producers as well as our executive producer, Dino. And a huge shout out to our writers, Ms. Hillary Real, Bubba Hotep and Windstorm114. Thank you all so much. [00:52:28] Speaker B: So the dialogue was needed a lot of work. The dialogue was not amazing in most places. They had some great lines, but overall it was not super great to listen to the plot. Absolutely filled with holes. As time travel movies go on, they tend to get worse, like this one. So I wish they could step away from time travel altogether and just start writing a good story about good people that happen to be related to Terminators in some way. This movie gets a 72 for me. I enjoyed the ride. I was smiling, I was excited. It was a fun watch. Certainly had to shut my brain off, but I knew that going into it. Maybe that's why it's getting such a high score. Had I gone into this movie watching Terminator, Terminator 2 and then Terminator Dark Fate, I probably would be a little bit more upset with this. But because I've seen such trash in between T2 and this, I was happy with this. I was. I was satisfied with what I got. [00:53:29] Speaker C: Much like Brian, I feel kind of the same way where having watched Genesis recently, it maybe lowered my expectations for this franchise so much that this one did kind of work for me. I didn't love this movie as much as he did, but it definitely did more things right than wrong as far as, you know, a sci fi block summer blockbuster action movie goes. The characters worked fine, the action set pieces were fun. I wish there's a little more explanation in certain parts, as we discussed earlier, but overall I had a pretty good time watching this one. I don't know this one that I'm gonna go back to. And it didn't necessarily have as many fun new ideas as I would have liked. But again, it's the sixth movie in a franchise. Of course it's going to kind of start reusing itself and going down a little bit. This is 63 for me. I enjoyed it, but it's not the top of the franchise. It was just kind of a fun afternoon. [00:54:21] Speaker A: I think there was some better things that Genesis did did. And Genesis gave us the first aging reasoning that this movie kind of took and just ran with. But Genesis was so convoluted that it was just terrible. But at least I thought it had a little bit more originality. Not much more by any means, but a little bit more. But no, it's definitely better than Genesis, but this one was just boring because again, it's a rehash of the first two and it just doesn't do it as well. It's not as exciting because we've seen it over six movies now. It's just. It just doesn't do it for me. Overall, this one's like on par with three because it's three only newer. 56 out of 100. I wouldn't recommend this to anybody. I think as most people claim, there's only two Terminator movies. Unfortunately, I would never say that, but I want to agree with them very, very much. [00:55:24] Speaker C: And with that we see Terminator not moving at all. My score went down to 68, Brian's held steady at 73, and Wills went down to 63. But overall the franchise stayed at 68. Keeping it under it, but ahead of the conjuring. What do you guys Feel about that? [00:55:42] Speaker B: It's better. It's better. Yeah. As a franchise, I have to say I think it's got better quality to it, better storytelling. [00:55:51] Speaker A: Yeah. I think it has the benefit of only being two movies, right? [00:55:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:55:58] Speaker A: The six movies kind of weigh this one down, similar to the Conjuring in my mind. And so that makes sense that they'd be around the same place. I'd still love to see Evil Dead a little higher, but you know, who. Who am I? Who am I? [00:56:12] Speaker B: Let me ask you guys this. If Terminator was 12 and Dark Fate only, do you think this would be up there with Aliens and Predator? [00:56:23] Speaker C: Yes, I think my score for Dark Fate might go up because it wouldn't be something we'd seen four times before we got to the movie. I assume the same would be. That would be the same for Will. So yes, it would go up. I don't know if all of a sudden Dark Fate becomes a great movie or it just becomes, oh, we haven't seen this five times. Yeah, it might seem longer like a 62 to like a 68 or something, but I don't think it's like an 88. [00:56:51] Speaker B: For me, the opposite happens because I see Terminator 2 and then go into Dark Fate and I go, this is terrible. This is not as good as what I've just come from. Whereas I've seen Terminator 3 and already experienced those feelings even to a worse degree. I really was frustrated with Terminator 3 and some of the other ones, Genesis to name a few. So I think you trim that dead weight, the score goes up for sure. But I'm not sure that my score for Dark Fate goes up, stays the same. It probably goes down a notch or two because of the lowered expectations of the previous films are assuming that Dark [00:57:29] Speaker C: Fate still comes out in 2019. So now you've got a 30 year window with no Terminators and it's actually accepted. Exciting to see Linda Hamilton and Arnold. [00:57:39] Speaker B: That might help. That might help. That might help. But man, I just. I want to get away from time travel. We've got interesting ideas and we've got a world that we can build on without traveling through time to destroy it or rebuild it or reboot it or whatever. Let's. Let's just have some fun with robots and AI from now on. [00:57:59] Speaker C: Would this be a bad time to tell you that we're doing Donnie Darko in Two Weeks More Time Travel? Well, that's our rating of Terminator Dark Fate, but what's yours? Leave a comment down below. I'd love to hear what you have to say. We record this live over at the Mongol Twitch TV themongooly show every Thursday night at 9pm Eastern. So you can head over there and hit the follow button if you want to hang out with us live. Or if you made it this far in the video, you probably enjoyed it, hit the like and subscribe button. So we see you in the next one. [00:58:28] Speaker A: Sam.