Ep 103 - Incredibles 2 (2018)

[00:00:00] Speaker A: What does any good super family do when being a superhero is illegal? They take turns breaking the law in the name of justice. This time around, Ellen's up to bat. [00:00:18] Speaker B: Completely overrated. [00:00:20] Speaker C: Hello, everybody, and welcome back to our Rating the show where I get to go with two of my buddies. We take a movie franchise, break it down by movie, give an overall score, and throw it back up on the board to see where it lands compared to the other movie franchises. This week, unfortunately, there was a scheduling snafu and so Brian will not be able to join us, but I'm here with Will where we get to Talk about Incredibles 2. Will, how are you this week? [00:00:39] Speaker A: I'm doing fantastic. I'm here. I loved the Incredibles and you hated it, so I can't wait for us to battle to the death on Incredibles 2. No, I'm just. [00:00:52] Speaker C: I absolutely did not hate it. I just didn't love it as much as you or the average person. But I understand the. The connection there. Yeah. This has been just an incredibly busy week. We had a little bit of a mess up with Brian there. He's had a really busy week. I've had a really busy week. So we're both kind of coming at this from different things. He thought we were watching Donnie Darko this week, so he was all pumped and ready for that. Had, like, his background set up. He's like, yeah, I can't wait to talk about Donnie Darko. I'm like, I haven't seen dark and darko 20 years, bud. [00:01:16] Speaker A: What are you doing? [00:01:17] Speaker C: This is the wrong movie. He's like, what? So thank God Will and I are on the same page at least, because otherwise I'd have to recuse myself and let those two talk. So. And it's funny, when we did Incredibles one, I wasn't around, so it was just you and Brian talking. Now we're doing Incredibles 2. Brian's not around. It's just you and I talking. You're the only one here for both [00:01:33] Speaker A: movies, so that means in 2028, I don't have to be here, right? [00:01:38] Speaker C: Sure. [00:01:39] Speaker A: Incredibles 3 is coming out. [00:01:41] Speaker C: Oh, is. Did they announce that? [00:01:42] Speaker A: They announced it at the big Disney announcing thing. Yeah. [00:01:46] Speaker C: D23. Nice. I did not know that. [00:01:48] Speaker A: Incredibles 3 and Brad Bird is writing it, but he's directing it this time because he's got a scheduling conflict, so somebody else will be directing. We'll see how it goes. [00:02:00] Speaker C: I feel like the writing is the more important part of that for him anyways. Like, I feel like he's got a good handle on these characters. So I'm actually pretty happy that he's the writer and not the director. As opposed to being the director, not the writer, if that makes sense. [00:02:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:02:11] Speaker C: Obviously, directors have a big part in movies as well. I don't mean that, but I think he has done a very, very successful job over the last two movies just nailing these characters and really making them pop, so. [00:02:20] Speaker B: So. [00:02:20] Speaker A: Agreed. Agreed. But I'm penciling in my time off for 2028, just so you know. [00:02:27] Speaker C: Fair enough. Fair enough. I will make sure that Brian and I are ready to go on that one eventually. I know the answer to this question I'm gonna ask you anyways. Is this your first time seeing Incredibles 2? [00:02:37] Speaker A: It is not the first time seeing Incredibles 2. I think, as I mentioned, with the Incredibles, it came out when I had a lot of young nieces and nephews, so we watched it a lot. This movie came out, what, 14 years later? So I had to. I had to dip my toes in the water here and. [00:02:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:02:58] Speaker A: Watch the movie again with all the same people. [00:03:02] Speaker C: Very nice. Very nice. Yeah. This one came. [00:03:04] Speaker B: Or. [00:03:04] Speaker C: Sorry. The first one came out long before I had kids, so this one came out when my kids were kind of old enough to know what it was. We didn't go see it in theaters or anything like that, but I've definitely seen it a few times. I. I think this is actually my second, maybe my third time watching it, but all of my children were like, wait, this is the second one. Like, I've seen this one more than the first one. I thought this was the first one. It was just like, oh, oh, interesting. So that was a nice little perspective on it. What do you think of the story of this one? Like, you really liked the story in the first one. So where's. Well, pick up for you. [00:03:34] Speaker A: Let me play my cards early. I felt that this one is inferior to the original by a long shot. Wow. [00:03:45] Speaker C: Okay. [00:03:45] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:03:47] Speaker C: Because I was gonna say, like, you gave the First 1 to 92. It wouldn't be hard to be inferior to that, but I didn't expect you by a long shot. [00:03:54] Speaker A: The problem with there's. And I think there's multiple problems with this movie. [00:03:57] Speaker B: I, I. [00:03:58] Speaker A: But I think the biggest problem. There's two things for me. One, the family dynamic doesn't feel the same as the first movie did. It more revolved around the family dynamic and working together. You are stronger than working alone, which was, you know, Mr. Incredible's big thing, which is Fine, that's the first movie story. It's okay that it's not as much in this one, but I, I feel like it fell apart completely and shouldn't have. And secondly, the story just felt safe. It didn't feel as risky as the first one. It didn't feel like it was pushing the boundaries. Like the first one. I didn't feel like on the edge of my seat like in the first one. I felt like the first movie, you know, it felt dangerous. These kids were in danger. And in this movie I didn't feel like anybody was in danger. So I don't know, just felt like it was phoned in a little bit. [00:04:52] Speaker C: That's fair. Yeah, I'd forgotten that this one took place literally the day after or actually like literally five minutes after the first movie. So there's no time for the kids to like grow up or age or become different characters. The one thing I will say is obviously 14 years later, this movie looks significantly better. But that's right to be, to be expected. [00:05:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:15] Speaker C: But also I thought the action in this one was actually significantly better or at least more engaging. For me personally, I, I don't know that I can argue the characters are, are on the same par, but I think right, just from a lot of the action scenes and whatnot, I, I really enjoyed this movie. Like if it is a superhero movie, which is what we're kind of basing off of. Yes, it's, yes, it's for kids, but it is very much a Fantastic Four style of story. I really like some of the things they did. Like some of the scenes with Elastigirl were just really fun to watch. [00:05:48] Speaker A: Oh, I don't disagree. I think they did a good job in the action scenes. I just feel like these felt to me like more standard comic book action movie sequences. Big flashy sequences. Whereas the other first movie felt like, oh, they're learning how to use their powers together in interesting ways and those ways make them stronger and that's why they can succeed in all these different difficult situations where in this movie they were pretty much separated for most of the movie and fighting their own way. And, you know, there wasn't all of those fun, interesting ways to further their powers by combining them. Except for Jack. Jack who has all the powers in the world. So it's just like, it just didn't feel as like fully developed to me. It, it felt like a step back to like, oh, it's just your typical blow up explosions. Don't get me wrong, Elastic Girl is badass. And the best Mr. Fantastic we could ever ask for. [00:06:58] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:07:00] Speaker A: You know, these movies are well and above most all the fantastic four movies that have ever been made. And I don't see it changing anytime soon. But I, it just, it just felt like a step backwards to me in almost all aspects of this movie. [00:07:18] Speaker C: I, I'm not 100% sure that I agree with you. Now, obviously you gave the first movie A92. I only gave it a 74. So I don't have maybe as far to fall or, or as high of a thought of the first one. This feels very on par with the first one for me in a lot of ways. Not necessarily in each category, but like in some of the categories I had an issue with in the first one, this kind of stepped up. And some of the categories I liked in the first one, it kind of stepped down. I mean, I don't want to get to where my rating is already, but like, for sure, it kind of feels, it feels like a worthy successor. I'm not. Sorry. A sequel. Right. Like, it feels like it makes sense that these two movies would be back to back. You can watch these back to back and have a pretty good time with either one of them. [00:08:00] Speaker A: No, you're not wrong. And here's the other thing. Like, it's not a bad movie. It's a, it's an entertaining, it's a good movie. It's just not what the first one was. And it's such a high bar, a high standard that it's almost impossible for it to, to come up to that level, I think. But just as like an example, you said the characters, you know, didn't have a lot of time to change from the first movie, which is true. But think of Dash's character in the first movie. You know, he's this high energy kid who's got this superpower that he wants nothing more to than use and explore. And he spends a whole movie kind of battling with if he can or cannot do that and his family finding a proper outlet for him to do that. And by the end, they do. What does he do in this movie? [00:08:53] Speaker C: I mean, kind of just runs fast and like, honestly and not even seem like he's that fast. [00:08:59] Speaker A: He's not that fast. His, his, his fight scenes specifically aren't that exciting. He doesn't really do anything. Right. Violet, the, the teenaged girl angst, the first movie she goes through, you know, she likes this boy. It's awkward, it's embarrassing. She's embarrassed by her family. By the end, she gets the Nerve to ask him out. She's confident. She finds that by using her powers and working with her family, she finds her independence but her strength in herself. [00:09:31] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:09:32] Speaker A: What. What does she do in this movie? [00:09:34] Speaker C: Literally the exact same thing over. [00:09:36] Speaker A: Exact same thing over. Okay, so that's the problem with this movie is that it. It backtracks on all the things in the first movie and doesn't do them as well as the first movie on the repeat for me. And so that, that's my major issue with the character arcs in this movie. And again, don't get me wrong, Helen is amazing. Okay, I'll take Elastic Girl all day. She's incredible. She's incredible. And I just feel like even Mr. Incredible, I understand the flip of, you know, the man being the home, the house, husband. Nobody understands that more than myself. But I just felt like it was too on the nose. It was just so there and like over the top there. I just was like, okay, so that's [00:10:26] Speaker C: one thing I did want to touch on because I was not here for the first review. I kind of gave my 5 minute blurb. But I was thinking about it because we watched Incredibles 1 relatively soon after watching American Beauty, which sounds like a weird segue. [00:10:39] Speaker A: Okay. [00:10:40] Speaker C: But both of those movies, one of the main issues I had with the father figures in them is it's kind of that like, you know, like, he's technically there for his family, but he's also basically a deadbeat. He's in a dead end job that he absolutely hates. He doesn't want to be there, he doesn't want anything to do with it, and he's kind of just miserable. I find that incredibly hard to relate to in like a father. Not a father figure, but like in like the. The father character in a movie. [00:11:08] Speaker A: Right. [00:11:08] Speaker C: And I was thinking about it, like, it's really weird to connect Incredibles with American Beauty, but, like, having watched both them somewhat close together, having them both have that same kind of trope, that was just kind of annoying for me. Like, that that is part of why I don't really resonate with his character very hard. And this movie started doing that as well, where it's like, oh, he's gonna be the stay at home dad. And look, he doesn't know how to do anything. I'm not a stay at home father like you are, but I definitely took some parental leave and was home with the kids and trying to help out as much as I can, especially in those early years. I'm not going to say that I did it Perfectly. I was definitely a fish out of water. But it's just one of those, like, really, we're just gonna do this thing where the dad doesn't know what he's doing, and, like, he's overtired constantly and can't find the time to shave. And. And then he did have that moment where he's laying in bed where he's just like, no, I. I got this. I understand what I need to do. I understand what needs to be done. And he kind of, like, steps up to the plate and, like, learns the math so he can help his kids. And he learns. I mean, he. He fails with the daughter, but he tries, right? [00:12:02] Speaker A: Like, yeah, yeah. [00:12:03] Speaker C: I like that he kind of stepped out of that stump or that slump, that stupor of just like, oh, I'm just gonna be nothing. Just try my best. And it's like, no, I'm. I'm Mr. [00:12:12] Speaker A: Incredible. [00:12:13] Speaker C: Like, I'm. I've handled bad guys. I can handle, you know, grade four math or whatever class Dash is in. [00:12:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:19] Speaker C: So as. As silly as that trope started off with, I did, like, his character arc of, like, no, I'm going to take control. I'm going to get this right. And he does kind of figure it out for the most part. Now, the kids, you're absolutely right. Like, they basically are in the exact same position they were in the first movie. But I liked Mr. Incredible's arc. And then for. For Helen, for Elastigirl, where she has to, like, almost take on the Mr. Incredible role where, like, she's a super, super heroing while he's at home. Yeah, I liked the arc of that. I wish we saw. Because she kind of gets right into it and forgets about her family for a while. [00:12:56] Speaker B: Right. [00:12:56] Speaker C: Like, she's just like, oh, right, I have to call home and check in on things. I mean, I guess to some point that's probably true. That's probably realistic. But sure, sure, get caught up in the dayto day. [00:13:07] Speaker A: I just feel like her. Like, Mr. Incredible's arc was so clear in the first movie. Like, he has to be this pillar. He's the man, whatever. The toxic masculinity kind of thing where he learns that, you know, as a family, together, they will be stronger and it's okay to lean on each other. That's great. I just don't feel like Helen had the same arc in this movie. It's like, she was so against him going out and doing the vigilante, you know, heroism in the first movie. And then she gets Offered this to go out and be the exact same thing, but, you know, with some parameters. And she's just like, yeah, let's do it. I mean, I understand the reasoning. Like, she wants to, you know, allow superheroing to be a thing because that will benefit their family and her kids and all of that going forward. But it just was such a turn on the dime from the first movie. I was just like, wait a minute. She would. Wouldn't she take a little bit more time thinking about this? Because that was the whole purpose of the first movie a little bit for her character. I don't know. It was just. It just everything just seemed less thought through compared to the first movie for me. [00:14:23] Speaker C: I don't know. Yeah. Which is surprising. You got 14 years to prepare for it. [00:14:27] Speaker A: Exactly. Yeah, I guess. Yeah. Okay, let me know what you think then. About the screen slaver. [00:14:37] Speaker C: There's two. There's two major issues that I have with it. Not necessarily from like a, you know, what it's trying to say about society or anything like that. That's a different conversation. But just from the screen slaver itself, we find out that they can, you know, hypnotize people with the screens, and then she can kind of control what they do. Right. And that's why some people are just, like, reading off what she says. Some people are just literally staring there off into nothing. They're not really paying attention, whatever. But then other people seem to have full control of what they're doing and are, like, autonomous, just under her control. Like, it seems like, yeah, a little bit differently. Like, at one point, she's checking in with people, and they've all got little cameras on them so she can see everything they're doing. And she's talking to the girl who can do Void. She's talking to Void. And Void's like, hey, you know, we almost hit them, but we lost him at the last second. And she's like, oh, you should have tried harder. It's like, is she your minion now? Like, is she actually willingly on your side? [00:15:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:15:28] Speaker C: Like, you're confusing. Even to the point where during the fight with Alaska Girl and, like, the fake screen slaver, she's afterwards. I don't know the villain's last name or the villain's name, but she's like, oh, he gave you a run for your money. I mean, I guess I gave you a run for your money. So, like, okay, so she's clearly saying I'm controlling him. But then when there's 14 of them and she's not Doing anything to them. They're all running around doing their own thing. That was one of those weird, like. No, no. You said you have to be in control of them. And it just feels like it changed depending on what the situation was. Like, in one scene, they're just zombies. In one scene, they're doing exactly what she says. In one scene, they're like. She's, like, telling them what to do but not really controlling them. She's like, turn left. Stop. Now do this. That bothered me a lot. Like, every other time we saw them was a totally different thing. [00:16:09] Speaker A: Yeah. It was very convoluted how it actually worked and how she could actually. [00:16:15] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:16:15] Speaker A: Do everything she was doing first year. [00:16:18] Speaker C: Exactly. The other thing that bothered me a little bit, I give it a little movie, a little bit of credence because Violet is a young superhero and Violet is inexperienced and doesn't know what to do. So I give it some credence there. But also, I feel like Violet is the perfect anti. Whatever, anti screen slaver. [00:16:38] Speaker B: Right. [00:16:38] Speaker C: You know what I mean? Like, all the villains at the end on the boat are wearing these glasses. She knows they're wearing glasses. She has to take them off. She can go invisible. And instead of being competent enough to, like, walk up and pull her mom's sunglasses off, she bumps into a potted plant. And it's just like, you can still see. Yeah. Like, you're not walking through the house in the dark. And, like, it's not like the world is invisible. It's just you. Like, I don't understand why you're clumsy all of a sudden. [00:17:02] Speaker A: Yeah. She's not really, like, a known for being clumsy. Right. That's the other thing. Right. It's like if that was a character trait already, you know, established. That's one thing. [00:17:13] Speaker C: Which if you'd been established, it's actually kind of interesting. Like, you've got this person who can be invisible. She's the perfect sleuth, except for she's clumsy and bumps into things for sure. So she has to try and be more careful. Okay, that sounds fun. [00:17:24] Speaker A: Yeah, that's fun. [00:17:25] Speaker C: But you didn't set that up over two movies, and all of a sudden it happens when it's convenient. It just. [00:17:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:32] Speaker C: Also, again, Dash just was not fast enough to do anything. He can't do anything. If your Dash, he's running on water, he's definitely got some speed. But, like, if you are Flash or Quicksilver, any like, the actual superheroes with super speed, you take all those sunglasses off in seconds so fast. [00:17:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:49] Speaker C: And so they had to really Nerf slash make the kids stupid, I guess. And it's just like, I get it, they're kids, but like, I don't know, you could have come up with a plan between the three two of you. [00:18:00] Speaker A: They had to open the curtain for Jack Jack. So let's, let's go to, let's move on to Jack Jack. I, I, I share a lot of your sentiment to Evelyn Devor, who is. [00:18:11] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:18:12] Speaker A: The bad guy. I also felt like as soon as she appears on screen, you know, she's the bad guy. I just didn't think it was like this twist by any means in the movie. It just felt, I. [00:18:24] Speaker C: Sorry. [00:18:25] Speaker A: No. That I have no else to say. It's just there in the open. [00:18:29] Speaker C: I couldn't remember if it was both of them or just one of them. So that was like the quote unquote twist was like, okay, which one of them is the evil one? And. Right. Pretty clearly it becomes the, the sister. [00:18:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:40] Speaker C: But I couldn't remember if the brother was in on it as well or if it was a double cross or how that was going to play out. So you mentioned Jack Jack feelings on [00:18:50] Speaker A: Jack Jack Jack Jack was like, I think most people's highlight in this movie because he's the one that kind of brings the unpredictable, the new, the, the freshness of the movie comes through. Jack Jack because he's this baby who does whatever he wants because he's a baby. He can't talk or communicate. He just, you know, he's got a temper. You know, he's off the wall. He's literally going through walls. And you, like, learn about all these different powers that Jack Jack has throughout in interesting, fun ways. My only issue with Jack Jack is, again, it's not that original because Disney released Jack Jack Attack, in which you see most of that stuff already in the, in the Animated shorts that they released after the Incredibles was released. So it's like even the most dynamic and fun parts of this movie I felt was a rehash because it was already done and kind of better in the shorts. [00:19:51] Speaker C: Yeah, I, I think I've seen Jack Jack Attack, but I couldn't tell you because I feel like most. This is actually going to play into your point perfectly now that I'm saying it out loud. Most of what I can remember of Jack Jack Attack also feels like what happened in this movie. So I couldn't tell you if I've seen Jack Jack Attack or if I just remember the Incredibles. [00:20:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:07] Speaker C: I mean, I just Walked right into that one. [00:20:09] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. I mean, the breakdown is. [00:20:11] Speaker C: It's. [00:20:11] Speaker A: It's him during him being babysat in the first movie. [00:20:15] Speaker C: What. [00:20:15] Speaker A: What happens to the babysitter, right? Which is like all these things that Jack. Jack does. So pretty much the same thing. But I mean, you said the action scenes were great. The raccoon Jack Jack fight was probably the best scene in the movie. [00:20:28] Speaker C: I was gonna say. I know we got at least one. One fan out there who's a huge fan of the raccoon scene. So there you go. Worth the movie. A price of admission just for that. Exactly. No, I thought the raccoon scene was actually really fun. I thought. I don't know. Jack. Jack is one of those, like, I get like the names are super on the nose, right? Like, that's kind of the fun, but also kind of silly. We got like, Dash, he can run fast. Violet, she goes ultraviolet. Jack, Jack, he's a Jack of all trades. Yeah, okay, but like, why. Why does he have every superpower? Like, is. Is Incredibles 3 gonna take place 10 years from now? And he's like a teenage, not a teenager, I guess, but like he's 10 year olds only, like, can actually somewhat control them. Or is it gonna be like the next next day and he's still a baby and. Oh, look, no, I'm hoping. [00:21:10] Speaker A: I'm hoping that time goes forward, kill off the parents and. Okay, the kids are now growing up and dealing with, you know, whatever comes up in. In superhero ville after legalization comes back into play. [00:21:24] Speaker C: You know, I. I can't imagine. You're gonna get your wish. No, there's almost no chance. [00:21:29] Speaker A: I'm just. I'm just dreaming of something. You know, a little push of the boundaries. But I don't think we're gonna get there, unfortunately. And Jack. Jack becomes evil. So the kid, the two. Dash and Violet have to find a way to stop him. Oh, that sounds great to me. [00:21:45] Speaker C: I mean, I'm. I'm. I would buy a ticket to your movie, sir, but I don't. I don't see that being the movie we're gonna get sold. I didn't know Incredibles 3 existed until, you know, half an hour ago, but I almost guarantee you it's not going to be killing the parents off. [00:21:58] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. [00:21:59] Speaker C: For sure. I like that we got more Frozone in this one than the first one. We actually got to see him use his powers quite a bit and be part of the team to some. Some extent. That was really fun. I really like that. I think we got the same joke twice, though, if I'm not mistaken, with the like, where you going asap? You better be back asap. Which I was like, huh, that's fun. And then she did it again, and I'm like, oh, no, no, no. That was a one time. We didn't need that. [00:22:22] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it was funny because his wife. I think they actually made a model of his wife. She was actually gonna appear in the movie this time. [00:22:30] Speaker C: Okay. [00:22:30] Speaker A: But then Brad Bird was like, you know what? Actually, I think it's funnier if we keep her off screen as just that little tidbit of, like, she's always yelling from off screen. So they. Apparently they use the character model as, like, you know, background in different scenes. But it's funny that they actually went a different direction because it was funnier for the movie. [00:22:51] Speaker C: I don't know. I have no problem with that. It was just the line redub. I was like, yeah, it was make that up or. [00:22:56] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I think you're right. It was. It was pretty similar overall. I. I like Frozone as much as the next guy. I still think he's way too overpowered, though. Like, he's super pop. Like, he. He stops almost all of those supers that come to the house to get the kids. Like, he. [00:23:16] Speaker C: Almost temporarily. [00:23:18] Speaker A: Yeah. But, like, pretty good. For a guy who has no idea what their powers are. His ice is just really diminishes opponents quickly. [00:23:30] Speaker C: I think Void was crazy powerful for, like, a sideline character who's like, oh, I'm so you can stretch. That's amazing. It's like you can make Voids anywhere. Like, you can teleport it. Yeah, I think you're pretty good for sure. [00:23:43] Speaker A: But I think they purposely made the character a little, like, clumsy. Like, unlike Violet, I think they actually made her like, oh, my accuracy is not great. [00:23:52] Speaker C: She's still learning her power. [00:23:54] Speaker A: Still learning and honing it in a bit, which helped lower the. The threat level on that. But, yeah, I think one of the cooler supers in the movie for sure. [00:24:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:04] Speaker C: No, I liked her visually. She was. She was very interesting. You asked me about Screen Slave, and then we kind of just went on a ramp. Your thoughts on the villain? [00:24:12] Speaker A: Ah, yeah. I mean, again, I. I like Screen Slaver, and the thing is, it's like they touch on screen flavor of, like, know everybody attached to their screens and this and that, which, you know, Toy Story 5 did 10 years later. But I don't know, it just. I felt like Screen Slaver in general in that character in general just was like, we need somebody to be a villain. And a comparative syndrome just doesn't. It doesn't stack up for me. I'm just comparing everything to the original because it's so good. And this character just seemed like, okay, wait, superheroes are outlawed, so why am I helping my brother to make them able to be law fighting criminal criminals again when I could just let the law stand as is? Wait, there's no purpose for this villain at all. It just. It's so weird to me. [00:25:18] Speaker B: I don't know. [00:25:19] Speaker A: What did you think? [00:25:20] Speaker C: So I think at the end of Incredibles 1, the Incredibles were back to being kind of heroes, technically outlaws, but realistically, public perception was swaying. So maybe in Incredibles 2, they were starting to become more likely to become like, they sped the brother and sister sped the process up for them becoming legalized, but they're probably heading that direction anyways. And so by helping them get legalized, but then turning them and making them evil right away would make the whole public be like, oh, no, these includes these. We were wrong. These guys are clearly villains. They need to be villains forever. But it was weird that her super like, her. Her plan didn't involve, you know, all the normal stuff, world domination, money, anything. It was literally just make superheroes illegal. Which you're right, they were at the beginning of the movie. So, yeah, why don't use your power to lobby against them. Screen Slaver was an interesting concept. I liked the. Specifically, like the. The screen saver mask that was used on the pizza guy where, like, it wasn't really him. You could just take it, take over anybody he wants. Kind of got a little bit more redundant when it was just every superhero had those sunglasses on. But I like the concept from that. Like, it could be anybody kind of a thing. Versus Syndrome. The villain from the first movie, though, like, you see, like, I didn't really care that much for the giant robots. They'd fight constantly versus Syndrome because Syndrome didn't really have any powers of his own. But Syndrome's a terrible person. Like, Syndrome is. [00:26:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:47] Speaker C: Killing, like, multiple superheroes. Like, we see, like, dead superheroes in the caves and in multiple locations and whatnot. It's like, oh, like he's a threat. We don't really get anything like that for. For Screenslaver. Like, screenslaver makes an anchor say something kind of mean. [00:27:04] Speaker A: And I think she has more reason because, like, she blames superheroes for her parents dying, right? [00:27:13] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:27:14] Speaker A: So why wouldn't she? [00:27:15] Speaker C: Which is a stretch, but okay, 100 a stretch. [00:27:18] Speaker A: But, like, okay, go all in, man. If you take it as dark as the first one, at least he's. Syndrome's often superheroes to make you make sure he's got the best technology to be the best superhero himself. But he didn't know. He didn't have any real loss. You know, at least she lost people because of superhero. She blames. She could be just as dark as that guy. But, no, she's just like, oh, no, I'll just make them work for me for a bit to make sure that nobody wants to change the law, I guess. Yeah. It just was so. She was so bland and boring to me. I just didn't like it at all. [00:27:58] Speaker C: Syndrome's major story point was basically just, never meet your heroes. Yeah. And then he went super villain, or at least this one. Like, you know, my parents died, and I'm blaming superheroes because Reasons. Yeah, no, I get what you're saying. [00:28:11] Speaker A: I think the other problem is because they tried to, like, hide who the villain was. You didn't get to get as much character from her. Whereas Syndrome, you know, from the start, his character's baked in from childhood. Right? Like, so you really understand that character, their perspective, why it's. Why he's doing it, whether it's right or wrong. Whereas hers, it's like, like you said, it's a stretch why she'd go to this length in the beginning. So it just. Again, I feel like the character development in this movie just is so subpar compared to the first one, and so it just makes for a less. I. I just can't get into it as much. I just can't. [00:28:55] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, if you're the. The. The brother and sister's dad, and you've got this house and you've got a direct line to superheroes and you've got a safe room, why are you not putting those phones in the safe room? Protect your family and call the superheroes at the same time? Like, no, I'm gonna put them in the lobby. That way I have to, like, go and confront the villains while I get. Like, okay, I. I get it. It's the point of the movie. Like, you have to have the plot working somehow, but it's just one of those, like, why would you do that? Like, what are we doing here anyways? Yeah, I liked the design of the villain more. I like the concept of the villain more. I don't think it was as fleshed out as I wanted it to be. [00:29:37] Speaker A: Yeah, it wasn't executed as well. I. I definitely don't think so. But what can you do? What can you do? What else we got here? [00:29:44] Speaker C: I did. Okay, so a lot of movies like this, the Toy Story. Not the Toy Story, the Pixar movies. Generally, when they have a sequel, it feels like they try to force everybody from the first movie into the second or into the third or whatever it is. And sometimes it can get really ham fisted. I feel like we brought in Frozone and it kind of makes sense. He's the dad's best friend. We bought in the boss. It makes sense. He's only there for like a short little bit. He's like, hey, you know what? They closed the program. I can't help you out. [00:30:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:10] Speaker C: And then they brought in, I believe it's. It's Edna mode. Yes. [00:30:14] Speaker A: The costume designer. [00:30:15] Speaker C: The costume designer, which was a huge fan favorite from the first movie. And I thought they did a pretty good job of why she's in this one as well, which is, hey, we've got this little kid. We need something to contain him because I don't know what I'm doing. And he's got 48 different powers at any given time. What can you do to help me? I feel like that was a pretty reasonable reason to bring in the costume maker. And while I don't know that she was as fun as she was in the first movie, that she doesn't have that line, like, she's like, no capes, like, right. I. I still think she did a. She was fun. She was still a pretty decent addition to the film. What do you think of the side characters in this one? [00:30:48] Speaker A: Yeah, I think Edna's always good. Again, I don't. I think her presence in this movie again, isn't as strong as the first one. He's literally looking for a super suit in the first one. In this one, he doesn't even know what he's looking for. He's just like, I'm so lost. I'm so tired. Help me. He doesn't even know what he's looking for, but she sees the powers and things, so she gets inspired. And that totally makes sense. But I think it was a little bit flimsy as to why he even went to Edna in the first place. [00:31:19] Speaker C: Well, he's still. He's still looking for a super suit. It's just not for him this time. [00:31:24] Speaker A: Did he say that, though? I don't recall him actually saying, hey, I need a suit to put this kid in because he's ruining my life. It just seems so weird. Why he had to go to Edna. I don't know. I did. I did connect it, but it made sense what she did. Obviously. [00:31:42] Speaker C: I'll definitely grant you, he did not say the words, help me out. This kid is ruining my life. That would have been a little on the nose. [00:31:52] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. But, no, but I, I, I, I. Yeah, I think Edna's a great character, and it makes sense why they put her back in this movie. But, yes, her and most characters aren't as quotable in this movie, I don't think, as the first one either. Just not, not quite the banger lines as the first movie. [00:32:12] Speaker C: I, I, yeah, I feel like I have to agree with that. Like, this is just. I was gonna say, look, what quotes are there in the first one? But, like, at least I can get a couple. I really can't get. [00:32:20] Speaker A: Yeah, monologuing. And what did they do in this movie? An unironic monologue by the villain. Are you kidding me? Why would you call. Why would you call that out in the first one and then just fall into that same old tired song and dance? Come on, Incredibles. [00:32:40] Speaker C: I mean, the first movie is all about superhero tropes, right? Like, that's literally the, the point of the villain and whatnot going on. [00:32:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:47] Speaker C: So, like, it makes sense that you would call them out on that. Yes, it'd be nice if they didn't fall into those same traps in this one, but it would make less sense for Screenslaver to say that than it did for Syndrome, I think. [00:32:57] Speaker A: No, 100%. But just don't monologue at all. Instead, just start off in superheroes. Okay. Make this movie feel dangerous, like I felt in the first movie, because there was real threat. I just didn't get that. But here I've been complaining a lot. Here's something I did like about the movie and I thought was really well done. The first movie, Mr. Incredible goes and stops a train, and that was, like, the catalyst for the law being changed and outlawing superhero vigilantism. This movie, Elastigirl goes out, rescues a train going off the tracks, and she's praised for it. And that's the catalyst for the beginning of change and maybe superheroes coming back into fashion. I like how they kind of used both scenarios in the same or in opposite lights, and how Mr. Incredible is like this big brute that just. He'll do anything to stop it, no matter how much damage is caused. Whereas Helen is like this more practical and, you know, using her mind as much as her amazingly stretchy body. To get things done without causing as much catastrophe. So I just really like the. The comparison of how two different superheroes handled pretty much the exact situation and what the outcome of that was. So I give the movie kudos in that regard. [00:34:31] Speaker C: Yeah, and actually, that's a good point. I'd completely forgotten about the train scene in the first one, but that is interesting, the way you. You mentioned it, like, she's kind of thinking her way through the problem, whereas, you know, he's strong. So every problem is a nail and he's the hammer kind of a thing. Exact. [00:34:44] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. No, so, yeah, I. I did enjoy that. And. And don't get me wrong, there is a lot of those cool, like, fun little elements in this movie, but I just feel like you have to search for them more and. And it's not the focus. I just feel like this is a. A run of the mill superhero movie, a Marvel Phase six or whatever we're in after Endgame instead of Incredibles that was just like, wanted to push the boundaries and wanted to, like, push the envelope on what a superhero movie could be and what. What you could talk about within that environment. You know, it wasn't about them being superheroes as much as they were super beings trying to live their life and sort it out. I don't know. I don't know. [00:35:41] Speaker C: If you like what we do and you want to help support us, consider joining our Patreon. There's a link down below. Thank you to our producers as well as our executive producer, Dino. And a huge shout out to our writers, Mrs. Hillary Real, Bubba, Hotep and Windstorm114. Thank you all so much. All right, everybody, I'm sorry this episode got a little bit messy, but we are joined here by Brian and Will. We are recording this on Sunday a few days later, so you'll get to see Brian's actual thoughts on movie now that he has, in fact, seen it. But, Brian, how you doing? [00:36:11] Speaker B: I'm doing okay, Dan. How are you? [00:36:12] Speaker C: I'm doing fantastic. Will and I have talked at length about this movie, but I'd love to get your thoughts, and you might as well roll this right into your review and we'll go from there. [00:36:20] Speaker B: Will do. So Incredibles 2 is one of those movies for me that I felt was a pretty darn good sequel in that they didn't change up the formula too much. It seems to continue on right after the first movie, and they build on some of the back burner elements of the first movie and expand that into their overall plot. That is the supers not being allowed to be supers. And so it feels like a really good continuation of the film. It flows naturally right into the sequel. And we have a lot of the same characters returning, plus some more. And I really liked all the voice acting. I liked the dialogue. I think my biggest complaint. Well, two big complaints for the sequel. One, they didn't improve on the effects or the look of the film at all. It was the same kind of blase look that the original one was. And I didn't expect them to change it much, but it didn't improve it at all. So it still kind of gets a low score for that kind of boring look. Now, we talked about that in Incredibles 1, of course, and it wasn't. It was a choice. It was a choice and it works. It's smooth and clean. But it is a little bit boring to look at. And when you roll into a sequel that doesn't have much of anything super new to it, it really kind of felt that much more boring to me. The other thing was that the movie was. I'm just kind of sick of Incredibles, I guess. I watched the first one so many times that watching this one and it was my second time watching it, as I watched it, I started to remember, oh, yeah, this is what it's all about. So it was. It was really kind of a boring watch for me. Still, it's a really well put together movie, just like the first one was. Pretty much the scores for all my categories were very similar to the first movie. I did really like the screen Slaver segment when Elastigirl is going after him. They've got the monologue playing as she's jumping from building to building and she goes in and she's creeping through it. It was a very dark, very eerie feel to it. They struck a strong emotion in that scene and I kind of liked that. And then of course, the somewhat predictable, somewhat unpredictable twist of who the villain is at the end. They kind of set it up so that you think it's Winston, the brother, and it turns out to be the sister. In hindsight, it's obvious, but maybe when you're watching it for the first time, it might give you a head fake. So it was okay there. Overall, the movie was. Was really good. It was almost as good as the original. I just wish they added a little bit more flair, a little bit more something to kind of push it through. I think this is a really good achievement for a sequel. Right? You go into the movie, you get what you want. It's more of the first one. [00:39:19] Speaker A: It's. [00:39:20] Speaker B: It just needed a little bit more umph somewhere along the line, something to really flesh it out. This one comes in at an 81 for me, and Dan can correct me if I'm wrong, but that's just a few points lower than the original, so. Solid film. Enjoyed my time with it. Don't have any desire to watch either of the incredible movies anymore, mostly because I just kind of got burned out on the first one and the second one didn't bring much new. New to the table. [00:39:49] Speaker C: All right. Normally I would go straight into my review right now, but we didn't really get a chance to talk with Brian about this one. That did drop eight points for you. You said you're sick of the Incredibles. They just announced that the Incredibles 3 is coming from Brad Bird. Does that excite you at all, or are you just over this franchise entirely? [00:40:06] Speaker B: I. I mean, this franchise has a lot of redeeming qualities. It's. It's good. It's good. It's just mostly I have kids, and I've seen the first one too many times, which is why it's such a bore to me. And with Incredibles 2 not veering too far from the path, there wasn't much new there. So if they can bring in Incredibles 3 and introduce, like, an amazing new character or something new to the plot, something interesting, some new character that really excites me, then I think Incredibles 3 could be a good time. But if they continue the exact same formula yet again, I'm going to be bored out of my mind. I need something fresh into the franchise. But that's very tricky. As you know, when you change things up, you can have absolute disasters. [00:40:48] Speaker C: Yeah. Now, I don't know if you watched the episode that Will and I recorded earlier, but Will was talking about what if they did, like, a massive time jump and, you know, basically kill the parents off and the. The. The kids are older. Jack. Jack's now like a teenager or an adult even. Like, would that kind of a time jump interest you, or do you still want to see the family just in a different light? [00:41:08] Speaker B: Honestly, I am kind of done with the parents. That does sound pretty intriguing to me. I. I could enjoy something the kids are in or whatever, and we're experiencing their life and it's focused on them some more. That would be an interesting change of pace. [00:41:21] Speaker C: I don't necessarily want the parents to die, but if they were like, the guy in the chair, like, they're clearly past their prime and now kids turn. Like that'd be. That'd be fine with me, but. Right. [00:41:29] Speaker A: Okay, cool. [00:41:30] Speaker C: I, I think the action in this movie was actually, was a step up from the first one. Personally, I mentioned that I do like the look of this movie more than the first one, but of course that's, you know, 14 or 15 years later, whatever it is. But regardless, I, I do think this movie did look better than the first one. But yeah, a lot of your points I, I completely, completely agree with. So for Incredibles 2, I don't have the same love for the Incredibles that most people do. So I didn't think that this one fell off nearly as hard. I thought the animation was significantly better. Obviously it's 14 years newer. I think the characters are roughly about as much fun. I actually like Mr. Incredible more in this movie than I liked him in the first one. I think the action sequences were significantly more improved, or at least I was more entertained by them. And overall I felt this movie was very watchable. It's not a franchise that I go back to. It's not a franchise that my kids ask for very often, so have that like hard nostalgia to it, either from my childhood or from my kids childhoods. But I wouldn't shy away from this. If my kids wanted to watch it, I'd be totally fine with this. It's a very watchable film. It's just not a fan favorite for me. It does score a little lower than the first one because it does feel a little repetitive. It does feel like some of the characters have not grown and do not grow in this movie. Or at least not in ways they didn't grow in the previous one. But I still think it's really solid. I'm giving this one a 72 out of 100. [00:42:43] Speaker A: Going to keep this super short, super sweet. This movie plays it too safe in comparison to the first movie. And that's all I've done all night is just compare it to the first movie. It's not a bad movie. It's just not the Incredibles. 75 out of 100. It's a decent movie, just not the Incredibles. [00:43:04] Speaker C: And with that, we've got Incredibles staying exactly where it is, in second place with a 73 from me, an 81 from Brian, and an 84. Four from Will coming in for 81 total. Tying it technically with Knives out, but because of the Alphabet, keeping its second place ranking. How do you guys feel about this locking in in second place until Incredibles 3 comes out, whenever that does happen to show up. [00:43:29] Speaker A: I. I think it's a good franchise overall. I think, you know, Brad Bird, he doesn't, he's not known for doing sequels. He doesn't really like doing sequels. And so he waited and he made sure it was worth making a sequel for the Incredibles. So I think the higher scores make sense for this two hander franchise. Keeping a pretty high score overall. I. [00:43:56] Speaker B: So I actually think that Knives out is better than Incredibles personally. Obviously my score shows that. However, as far as rewatchability, Knives out is kind of a one off because you know who who did it and when you know who did it in a who did it film. It kind of loses its pizzazz though. I am bored to death with Incredibles, so I'm really looking forward to seeing if number three will bring something new to the table and change it up and make it more interesting. But I'm okay with these scores. [00:44:29] Speaker C: I personally think it feels a little high. Obviously, I'm the lowest on this franchise. I. I just don't love them in the same way that most people do. I think they're both really well made and they're both very good movies. They're just not ones that I go back to very often. Knives Out I think is probably good twice as opposed to once because you get the one time for the twist and the second time to see how they. They stack up. And it actually is pretty fun that way. But I'm definitely like knives out 4. I would take over incredibles 3. Any. [00:44:56] Speaker B: I think so too. Yeah. Yeah. [00:44:57] Speaker C: So absolutely. You know, it. It kind of is what it is in that sense. But like, yeah, I'm looking down this list and like, there's a lot of movies on this list I would watch before I'd watch Incredibles again. So. But I mean, I can't. I can't deny the quality. The Incredibles is really well made. There's no argument there. It's just not. It's just not one that super resonates with me. [00:45:15] Speaker A: Yep, super. [00:45:17] Speaker C: I didn't mean to do that. It just happened, I promise you. All right, well, that's our radio Incredibles too, but what's yours? Leave a comment down below. I'd love to hear what you have to say. We record these every Thursday night at 9:00pm Eastern Standard Time over at Twitch TV, the Mongolie Show. So head over there and hit the follow button if you want to hang out with us live or if you enjoyed this video. Make sure you hit like and subscribe so that I see you in the next one.